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    Default Hemi swap question

    Forgive my ignorance as I’m a first time poster, but I haven’t found much in my research on this subject. Obviously Holley has a direct swap kit with all the bells and whistles. My problem is I can’t find any pros/cons on the different sizes and generation’s of Gen III Hemis. I know when it comes to price and availability, a regular 5.7 is going to be the most cost efficient. As is when it comes to power, a 6.4 is going to be the highest crank HP. But none of my research has shown the differences in the swaps (including the 6.1). So my question is which of the 3 is the most practical swap for a 500hp truck with air conditioning? Obviously a 6.4 gets me close to that, but it’s a $6k-8k used motor, which at that point seems more practical to build my 360 from the ground up so I keep all my set points and gauges. Where’s as I could get a $1000 5.7 junkyard pile of s**t, freshen it up and do a heads/cam package. Long story simplified I’ve found too many options to decide. I’m asking the guys that have hemi swapped what your opinions are. The handful of guys running 6.2’s, I’m jealous and I’m only spending $10-12k. To the experienced guys, I don’t mind constructive criticism. Fire away 👍

  2. #2

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    Is there a reason behind your hp goal and do you mean rwhp? If you do and you're going through a slush box, you'll need closer to 600 hp in the engine bay.
    Personally, if I had to have a "hemi," I'd do cam, heads and intake mods on a freshened 5.7 and throw on a super charger.

    There are guys here who stuck with the 360 in several iterations and did 10's in the quarter with boost

    In the end, differentiated engine swaps are a pain in the ass.
    If I did one, I'd want every single piece for the swap available down to the littlest detail. I have little patience left for headaches.
    Don't forget to save some coinage for the tranny if automatic.

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    Another reason I’m considering a hemi swap is most of the threads I read on here from the race guys only seem to be making around 500hp N/A using a 360 with a lot of work. In my mind it seams more practical to start with a motor that’s already close to that HP mark and go from there. But at the same time I know this won’t be just a “swap”. I’m already sold on the idea of a hemi swap, I just can’t figure out which year model or size is best for the swap. I’m digging through challenger and charger threads trying to find the difference in the 03-07 and 08-18 hemis. I just wanted to hear from the guys that have done it if one size/year model out-benefitted the other, or if it was all the same.
    Last edited by CharliesRT; 02-04-2021 at 10:22 AM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharliesRT View Post
    Another reason I’m considering a hemi swap is most of the threads I read on here from the race guys only seem to be making around 500hp N/A using a 360 with a lot of work. In my mind it seams more practical to start with a motor that’s already close to that HP mark and go from there. But at the same time I know this won’t be just a “swap”. I’m already sold on the idea of a hemi swap, I just can’t figure out which year model or size is best for the swap. I’m digging through challenger and charger threads trying to find the difference in the 03-07 and 08-18 hemis. I just wanted to hear from the guys that have done it if one size/year model out-benefitted the other, or if it was all the same.
    It is more practical but you have to keep in mind of going too far with internals to get to where you want n/a. This is why the 700 hp Dodges are completely tractable on the street. They go just so far internally in terms of compression and cam specs with heads that breathe like we the people. On top of this they throw on a s/c but the engine has been built with this in mind.

    Many ppl think that "lope" is significant to "sound like it's fast". I'd rather have a cam at a 117-120 lsa and actually "be" fast.

    Unfortunately Charlie there aren't many people here at all that have done the hemi thing and those who have may not be here any longer.
    I know to you're looking for "practical and pertinent" info but I think the pickens for this are slim.
    Hopefully someone will chime in or someone who knew someone who did so.

    Just for the info, Hot Rod recently took a slightly warmed over 5.7 hemi out of a Ram and it based at 376 hp. They then changed the cam to 220/230* duration with a .596 lift and a 113 lsa. They then put 1 and 7/8" Hooker headers on and at 6200 rpm, made 442 hp. They tried a couple of intakes but stuck with the original Magnum as it produced only 1 hp less than the SRT8 manifold.
    This was done with a Holley management system and a 650 cfm carb.
    Put an s/c on this and you're at 600 hp for relatively cheap.
    That makes for a hell of a street truck imo while still being completely mannered.

    For added perusal, I include this about a "stroked" 5.7:https://www.hotrod.com/articles/gen-...#ixzz3YN18l8SC

    This article was from 2015 so I'm sure things could be updated from this point. This engine took a lot of extra steps to get to where it is n/a. About the same place you'd be at with a simpler 5.7 build w a super charger.

    Here is another way back in 2011 about a turboed hemi for less than $4000:https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...d-hemi-engine/
    Last edited by arro222; 02-04-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  5. #5

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    Pick up a copy of the book by Larry Shepard: New HEMI Engines 2003 to PRESENT ISBN: 978-1-61325-357-1

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    Hey Charlie,

    I've done a few Hemi swaps at this point. My black truck had a 6.4 392 SRT engine for a year (backed by a T56) and now has the Hellcat in it that I've been running for 3 years. I'm also doing another swap, a 5.7 Eagle (09-current) engine in my 2001 Regular cab. In my opinion and experience, the 6.4 is an absolute riot in one of these trucks if you can find one affordably. This is possible, I see them pop up here and there for anywhere from $3000-$5000 used on a regular basis. The old days of heads and cam packages really don't apply to G3 Hemis because the factory cylinder head is such a high flowing port (not necessarily including the pre eagle 03-08 5.7s). I did my 392/T56 swap with a Mopar crate kit for somewhere between $10-12k, and while that's a bit heavy to swallow for some the driveability and power I got out of it was absolutely awesome. I didn't have enough gear to really take advantage of it and that trans had a sticky 4th gear, but in my only trip the track I still managed to go 12.5@114 with it. I sold it to another club member who backed it with an automatic in his truck and has since been 11.80@115 with it. Pretty stout even by today's standards.

    With my current build I set out to do it as affordably as possible and I've kept track of every single dime I've spent on it. I should be wrapping it up soon. Including the price of the truck and transmission I'm right around $7000 into it. That is a 2009 5.7 from a Charger, a built 46re with used MSaine 2800 converter, all of Holley's new swap parts (headers, engine mounts, cross member, Terminator X, etc). Realistically this should be a good enough combo for 12 second passes without breaking a sweat. I plan on posting a breakdown once I complete it.

    If you've got any questions at all feel free to ask. I'm an open book when it comes to information on Hemi swaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlakDak71 View Post
    Hey Charlie,

    I've done a few Hemi swaps at this point. My black truck had a 6.4 392 SRT engine for a year (backed by a T56) and now has the Hellcat in it that I've been running for 3 years. I'm also doing another swap, a 5.7 Eagle (09-current) engine in my 2001 Regular cab. In my opinion and experience, the 6.4 is an absolute riot in one of these trucks if you can find one affordably. This is possible, I see them pop up here and there for anywhere from $3000-$5000 used on a regular basis. The old days of heads and cam packages really don't apply to G3 Hemis because the factory cylinder head is such a high flowing port (not necessarily including the pre eagle 03-08 5.7s). I did my 392/T56 swap with a Mopar crate kit for somewhere between $10-12k, and while that's a bit heavy to swallow for some the driveability and power I got out of it was absolutely awesome. I didn't have enough gear to really take advantage of it and that trans had a sticky 4th gear, but in my only trip the track I still managed to go 12.5@114 with it. I sold it to another club member who backed it with an automatic in his truck and has since been 11.80@115 with it. Pretty stout even by today's standards.

    With my current build I set out to do it as affordably as possible and I've kept track of every single dime I've spent on it. I should be wrapping it up soon. Including the price of the truck and transmission I'm right around $7000 into it. That is a 2009 5.7 from a Charger, a built 46re with used MSaine 2800 converter, all of Holley's new swap parts (headers, engine mounts, cross member, Terminator X, etc). Realistically this should be a good enough combo for 12 second passes without breaking a sweat. I plan on posting a breakdown once I complete it.

    If you've got any questions at all feel free to ask. I'm an open book when it comes to information on Hemi swaps.
    The 5.7 swap you are currently doing would be the exact route I would like to go. Thank you for the info. I’ll try to keep an eye out for your updates so I know what to expect. And I was unaware on the “eagle/non eagle”. I’ll order Larry’s book and get my knowledge up.

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    Early 5.7 06-08 (pre-eagle) Would be the cheapest to build and still easy to make your power goal. Problem with those years is the valve seats in the head has a loose tolerance and can drop out. Not too expensive to fix the head before that point tho.
    Eagle 5.7 (09-current) has a great head characteristics. but that block is VVT and could be a slightly more expensive to build but comes with a better oil pump which is nice.
    6.1s are pricey to find. good heads and the only aluminum intake.
    6.2s very pricey, obivously make great power with the blower but they have their own intake bolt pattern which limits their growth.
    Car 6.4s. decent as is na. Intake is actually really nice with the variable runner length. Heads flow great, big valves. but the ring lands on the pistons are pretty thin and will break under boost/bad tune.
    truck 6.4 (bge block) probably the best genIII block there is. Pricey if the seller knows what they have but most sellers do not know the differences. Block has extra strengthening webs, heads are a different material and will hold lots of boost.

    All the cranks are pretty strong. Oiling is a concern at wicked high rpms. For your goal. I would look for a 5.7. either one would be fine. eagle would be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlakDak71 View Post
    Hey Charlie,

    I've done a few Hemi swaps at this point. My black truck had a 6.4 392 SRT engine for a year (backed by a T56) and now has the Hellcat in it that I've been running for 3 years. I'm also doing another swap, a 5.7 Eagle (09-current) engine in my 2001 Regular cab. In my opinion and experience, the 6.4 is an absolute riot in one of these trucks if you can find one affordably. This is possible, I see them pop up here and there for anywhere from $3000-$5000 used on a regular basis. The old days of heads and cam packages really don't apply to G3 Hemis because the factory cylinder head is such a high flowing port (not necessarily including the pre eagle 03-08 5.7s). I did my 392/T56 swap with a Mopar crate kit for somewhere between $10-12k, and while that's a bit heavy to swallow for some the driveability and power I got out of it was absolutely awesome. I didn't have enough gear to really take advantage of it and that trans had a sticky 4th gear, but in my only trip the track I still managed to go 12.5@114 with it. I sold it to another club member who backed it with an automatic in his truck and has since been 11.80@115 with it. Pretty stout even by today's standards.

    With my current build I set out to do it as affordably as possible and I've kept track of every single dime I've spent on it. I should be wrapping it up soon. Including the price of the truck and transmission I'm right around $7000 into it. That is a 2009 5.7 from a Charger, a built 46re with used MSaine 2800 converter, all of Holley's new swap parts (headers, engine mounts, cross member, Terminator X, etc). Realistically this should be a good enough combo for 12 second passes without breaking a sweat. I plan on posting a breakdown once I complete it.

    If you've got any questions at all feel free to ask. I'm an open book when it comes to information on Hemi swaps.
    I was reading through this thread and was gonna post that there was a guy on these forums with a truck that looked similar to mine and ran very similar track times with a stock 6.4 swap to my fairly heavily modded 5.9 and then i saw your post lol. I cant believe u upgraded that 6.4 to a hellcat thats awesome.. those are amazing track times.. do u have any pics of the engine bay or anything? awesome job


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    Another option is to check out Boosted Motorsports Dakota on you tube He is into episode 39 on a Hellcat swap from a salvaged Charger, with only 12,000 on the motor. Holly has done a great job in components for the conversion, and Boosted Motorsports is also using the Chargers auto tranny, dash, heater, pretty inspiring.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvbo View Post
    Another option is to check out Boosted Motorsports Dakota on you tube He is into episode 39 on a Hellcat swap.
    You are WAY better off asking BlakDak71 questions, he actually knows what he is doing.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvbo View Post
    Another option is to check out Boosted Motorsports Dakota on you tube He is into episode 39 on a Hellcat swap from a salvaged Charger, with only 12,000 on the motor. Holly has done a great job in components for the conversion, and Boosted Motorsports is also using the Chargers auto tranny, dash, heater, pretty inspiring.
    Yeah it's cool and all but that swap is a MAJOR headache in my mind. The stuff he had to do simply to fit the engine let alone getting it to run would make me want to shoot myself in the eye.
    I agree whole heartedly with Wedged about picking Black dacs brain before this other guy.
    At least BD is in a realm of sensibility with his swaps.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    Yeah it's cool and all but that swap is a MAJOR headache in my mind. The stuff he had to do simply to fit the engine let alone getting it to run would make me want to shoot myself in the eye.
    I agree whole heartedly with Wedged about picking Black dacs brain before this other guy.
    At least BD is in a realm of sensibility with his swaps.
    it should be call BoostedMoronsports. The guy is an idiot and should not own tools.
    1941 Dodge 1/2 ton, 493 twin turbo, EFI, 727, 4 wheel disc brakes, custom triangulated 4 link, DANA 60, Gleason Torsen diff,

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    Why all the hate for Boosted? I would argue that all of us Mopar fans are a special breed. All of us R/T guys are brothers from another mother. We should be embracing him with open arms and encouraging his work. He's done more to advance interest in the Dakota R/T's that any of us in the past few years and that's for sure. He's got a ton of helpful videos up on this truck that make it easy for shade tree guys like me to understand. Yeah, he might not know everything there is to know but who does? He's documenting his learning process on youtube and I think it's great.
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    He’s got it running ! Not that much of a moron !

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    I'll admit I watched him from the time he picked up his Dakota and many of his early videos were informative "how to" videos. Now he's doing a lot of work, but even more self aggrandizing.

    My dislikes

    1st:

    Gets most information off the web and has asked advice, but rarely credits sources, unless they sponsor or give him something. Often ignores advice given.

    2nd:

    Throwing venders under the bus. Several times has given poor reviews for something that didn't go right and not given the vendor chance to make it right, with correction, explanation or rebuttal. We all know how hard it is to find Dakota specific parts, vendors that offer specialized parts should be encouraged, supported, and promoted

    3rd:

    Claiming first swap, Greg swapped a Hellcat into his Dakota 3 years ago. While there was a lot of hater commenting about it, Greg never stooped that low. Boosted did an almost entire episode disrespecting his build. His swap is hardly the first Hellcat swap period. Christ someone put one in a Miata.

    4rd:

    While this is a really a cool build, this is really out of reach of most. Was 22k for the initial junk yard Hellcat parts alone. I can't even fathom what the end cost of everything is going to be.

    5th:

    While he has laid off a bit, over did it asking for help, donations and sponsorship. Lost a lot of respect asking for money. At the end of his episode, would be normal and acceptable by most.

    6th:

    Overuse of "Whatnot" and "Boyz". College students could get hammered with a drinking game having to drink up every time he uses these terms.


    I'll keep watching, to invested now to not see the outcome.
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    Hellcat swap is out of the question with my situation. I’m looking at either a newer 5.7 or a 6.1. Holly seems to have everything I really need besides some A/C and electric power steering questions. I haven’t read much of Larry’s book yet, but I’m getting a lot of info just reading about older A body swaps. Dak seemed to answer most of my questions and I’ll start getting with him more once I actually get the motor in my garage (if he lets me).

    With that being said, I’ve decided to not spend any money on my 5.9 and move forward with the hemi swap. Luckily all I’ve bought so far for the 5.9 is a ported eddy intake from Hughes. If anyone is interested in it I’ll sell it for $500 plus shipping. I haven’t even opened the box yet to look at it, it’s braaaaaand new. Paid $680 I believe.

    And boostedmotorsports fuckups have actually saved me some headaches with my club cab, so his stupidity helped my stupidity ��.

    My next question is should I run a Msaine 46re with the hemi or run the 8 speed? My original plan was to run the msaine to keep it simple, but after reading up on the Holley stuff, it’s not very complicated with their programming. I just like the idea of running a simple 4 speed with a manual valve body in the late future.

    Thanks for all the info guys. This is my 3rd Dakota but my first engine swap.

  18. #18
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    You will not be disappointed in the 8spd , shit the 5spd in my Jeep is so much snappier then the 46re, but then again Frostbite Ram took his off and had a 46re built for his ram

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharliesRT View Post
    I just like the idea of running a simple 4 speed with a manual valve body in the late future.

    .
    I'm with you on this.
    Keep this shit as simple as you can in my mind.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrt View Post
    I'll admit I watched him from the time he picked up his Dakota and many of his early videos were informative "how to" videos. Now he's doing a lot of work, but even more self aggrandizing.

    My dislikes

    1st:

    Gets most information off the web and has asked advice, but rarely credits sources, unless they sponsor or give him something. Often ignores advice given.

    2nd:

    Throwing venders under the bus. Several times has given poor reviews for something that didn't go right and not given the vendor chance to make it right, with correction, explanation or rebuttal. We all know how hard it is to find Dakota specific parts, vendors that offer specialized parts should be encouraged, supported, and promoted

    3rd:

    Claiming first swap, Greg swapped a Hellcat into his Dakota 3 years ago. While there was a lot of hater commenting about it, Greg never stooped that low. Boosted did an almost entire episode disrespecting his build. His swap is hardly the first Hellcat swap period. Christ someone put one in a Miata.

    4rd:

    While this is a really a cool build, this is really out of reach of most. Was 22k for the initial junk yard Hellcat parts alone. I can't even fathom what the end cost of everything is going to be.

    5th:

    While he has laid off a bit, over did it asking for help, donations and sponsorship. Lost a lot of respect asking for money. At the end of his episode, would be normal and acceptable by most.

    6th:

    Overuse of "Whatnot" and "Boyz". College students could get hammered with a drinking game having to drink up every time he uses these terms.


    I'll keep watching, to invested now to not see the outcome.
    All very good points.... Your second point regarding vendors is spot on. In one early episode they attempted to install a supercharger that was bought 2nd hand (maybe 3 or even 5th hand?) and had issues, it was for the wrong application. He said that he had asked for "help" ( it was obvious that it was a request for a handout) from the supercharger manufacturer because he had a youtube channel and they would not send him anything for free and he bashed them for that... Genius move...
    1941 Dodge 1/2 ton, 493 twin turbo, EFI, 727, 4 wheel disc brakes, custom triangulated 4 link, DANA 60, Gleason Torsen diff,

    2002 Dakota R/T RC, PX8, PPH Headers, K&N FIPK, Hotchkis TVS, 20" R/T chrome rims, BFG G-Force T/A KDW 275/35 ZR20 tires, Kenwood head unit, Kenwood speakers, RF amp, 8" RF Punch Z subs

    1998 Dakota RC daily driver 5.9L, AX-15 5 speed, Hooker long tube headers, FRP tune

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharliesRT View Post
    Hellcat swap is out of the question with my situation. I’m looking at either a newer 5.7 or a 6.1. Holly seems to have everything I really need besides some A/C and electric power steering questions.

    And boostedmotorsports fuckups have actually saved me some headaches with my club cab, so his stupidity helped my stupidity ��.
    Just watch his vidoes, and then do NOT do what he does and you'll be fine !

    I'm in the process of gathering all of the parts needed to do a swap using a 5.7 and a NV3500 . I'm in florida so AC is a must. I'm anticipating making some custom ac hoses. I have a crimper and I've plumbed a few other projects already so that's no big deal. Over the years I've had 7 Dakotas and currently still have 3 of them, and the front half of the frame under the 41 is from a Dakota.
    1941 Dodge 1/2 ton, 493 twin turbo, EFI, 727, 4 wheel disc brakes, custom triangulated 4 link, DANA 60, Gleason Torsen diff,

    2002 Dakota R/T RC, PX8, PPH Headers, K&N FIPK, Hotchkis TVS, 20" R/T chrome rims, BFG G-Force T/A KDW 275/35 ZR20 tires, Kenwood head unit, Kenwood speakers, RF amp, 8" RF Punch Z subs

    1998 Dakota RC daily driver 5.9L, AX-15 5 speed, Hooker long tube headers, FRP tune

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