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Thread: Odd electrical issue on the 3800 mile R/T

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    Default Odd electrical issue on the 3800 mile R/T

    We were swapping out the fluorescent high-bay light tubes in the shop for LED, so everything had to come out of the shop. After we finished that chore, we decided to exercise the vehicles a bit. As usual, I find new things that need fixing when we do that, and I've come to expect it. When we got to the Dakota, hopped in and started it up as usual. Sounded great, as usual.

    After start up, the ABS light came on. I've dealt with that before, and already swapped out the rear speed sensor, which worked for about 2 years. It's come on again. I'll probably crawl under the truck and 'cycle' the plug to see if it's just corrosion there. If not, I guess I have to find another sensor.

    What I wasn't expecting came next; the Air Bag light came on! I even tried turning the truck off, turning the passenger air bag off and restarting. Still no fun.

    My wife was going to ride with me, so I hit the unlock button to unlock the passenger door. The locks just buzzed. They'll neither unlock, nor lock by switch. Ugh! Had to reach over and manually unlock the door.

    Since the weather was nice, I figured I'd roll the windows down for some fresh air driving. No dice! Neither window switch works. Sooo, we'll turn the A/C on and use it. Nope! The HVAC won't work, either! Neither did the radio. WTF!?!

    I've never seen this before. It seems like about half the electrical is working!! Lights, turn signals, brake lights, fog lamps, emergency flashers, even the mirror adjustors work, but it seems nothing else does.

    I haven't plugged an OBDII reader into it yet, but wanted to check here to see if anyone has heard of such issues. This is a 3800 mile R/T, and nothing has been done to it in quite a while. I'm stumped.

    Thanks for any ideas.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    99dart's Avatar
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    Hi Gene, Dang, sorry to hear off the electrical issues! I really don't have any solid ideas for you. check grounds, battery fully charged, the usual suspects. Hope it's an easy fix! Merry Christmas!!
    99 DA CC R/T
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    niebs's Avatar
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    hrm. bcm functions? Basics first i would say. Fuses, grounds, power.

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    Everything is tight and clean. Battery is a year old, not that that matters these days, but stays on a Battery Tender when in the shop. Engine turned over as expected, no dragging, slow cranking, etc. I'd suspect that the battery is fine, based on that, and connections are good, at least to the starter.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    niebs's Avatar
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    Need to look at a schematic and look for the grounding points/junctions on the body and under the dash.

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    Yeah, I need to break out the FSM, but wanted to check here to see if there was a common issue like this. Kind of like the front brake hose issue and rear speed sensor issue that I've run across before. Thanks.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    y2krtaf's Avatar
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    Check your ignition switch....When the factory grease gets old and crappy,it does weird things to the contacts.
    Ran into a similar situation with my ’96 Dakota once.Windows etc wouldn’t work unless I jiggled/worked the ignition switch just right.

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    Thank you! I'll start there. Trying to locate my FSM at the moment. Hopefully it's still out in the shop!
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    evilrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by y2krtaf View Post
    - I jiggled/worked the ignition switch just right.
    My headlight switch is like this. Gets better the application of some contact cleaner. Will probably end up replacing it.
    Mike Williams
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    Quote Originally Posted by y2krtaf View Post
    Check your ignition switch....When the factory grease gets old and crappy,it does weird things to the contacts.
    Ran into a similar situation with my ’96 Dakota once.Windows etc wouldn’t work unless I jiggled/worked the ignition switch just right.
    I tried moving the key around a bit while I started the truck, and got no relief. Waiting for the new copy of the FSM shows up to dig deeper.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    Bizarreness continues! Got new slicks on the race car, and got it back on the trailer. Since we now had room in the work area, I rolled the Dakota to that spot and started looking at it.

    I decided I’d start testing things I hadn’t tested before, to verify exactly what does and does not work. Since the power door locks were giving me issues, I checked that fuse. All good. Plugged it back in. Started circuit-testing:
    Cigar lighter works.
    Glove box light works.
    Side view mirrors work.
    The lights on the power door lock and window switches work.
    Wipers work.
    All the lights work.
    Turn signals and flashers work.
    With the key on, when I move the HVAC control, I can hear the doors in the dash move.
    While checking things out, I discovered I was pressing the wrong button to power the radio on. I pressed it, and it came on!


    Since I was just going through everything again, I turned the HVAC controls to A/C. The blower started blowing!! I started the truck and turned the A/C on. It came on and started blowing cold air! I checked the windows, they now work. Also, the Air Bag and ABS lights were now off.

    Everything seemed to work…. except the door locks. They buzz when I press to unlock, but do nothing when I press to lock. If I lock a door, and press to unlock, they just buzz, and nothing happens. Still perplexed, actually MORE perplexed now, since things are sort of working!!

    If it weren’t Sunday, I’d run out and get it inspected while everything is working!! =8-0

    Time to enjoy some quality FSM reading.

    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

  12. #12

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    The lock motors are bad. The grease in them may have hardened from lack of use.
    1941 Dodge 1/2 ton, 493 twin turbo, EFI, 727, 4 wheel disc brakes, custom triangulated 4 link, DANA 60, Gleason Torsen diff,

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    1998 Dakota RC daily driver 5.9L, AX-15 5 speed, Hooker long tube headers, FRP tune

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    But both sides at the same time? On a <4000 mile vehicle that's been kept inside when not being driven?

    I guess it's possible, but I'm having trouble believing it would happen on both locks.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    Okay, got more time out in the shop to look at things. It seems the passenger side lock will LOCK every once in a while, but not always. Additionally, it, like the other side, refuses to unlock. When they 'misfire', they kind of growl/buzz. When the passenger side locks, it's instantaneous with no other noises other than the click of the lock mechanism going to the locked position.

    One odd thing I did notice was that the power windows do not work unless the truck is running. I can turn the key to the on position, and still no windows. I have to start the truck for the windows to work. Since I don't spend a lot of time with this truck, and it is our only Mopar product on the property, is this normal, or evidence of other issues?

    I got the driver's side door panel off, and can get my fingers on what I think is the door lock motor, but since it's behind the inner metal door panel, can't see it to see how it comes out. I'll have to do some bedtime reading of the FSM to see if I can find that out.

    That's it for now.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    Sounds like a grounding or oxidized switch issue.
    Mike Williams
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    Since the door locks won't affect the thing passing inspection, I put everything back together again. I'd pulled the door panel off the driver's side door to see what I could see.... pretty much nothing. It seems the door lock mechanism is one with the door latch assembly, so I'm not sure what we'll do there. I may pull it out one hot summer day and see if a little heat will soften the grease in the motor to test that hypothesis. The passenger door lock will still lock after about 4-6 times pressing the lock button, but still refuses to unlock with the switch.

    Since since the dash lit completely up when we moved the truck out of the shop the time this trouble started, I figured I'd take it for a bit of a drive and see how things go. Well, they went okay. The truck is still a blast to drive. Luckily, the MIL was off, but I still decided to scan it just to make sure. Hmm, P0545 - bank 1 O2 sensor voltage low. While running the truck and running the logger, the curves for all 4 sensors looked pretty normal. I guess I'll have to ride and log so I can get a closer look at what the numbers are. Not sure if just throwing a new O2 sensor at it will fix the issue.

    Bummed that it's up for inspection this month. We may miss that deadline.....
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbeaird View Post
    Since the door locks won't affect the thing passing inspection, I put everything back together again. I'd pulled the door panel off the driver's side door to see what I could see.... pretty much nothing. It seems the door lock mechanism is one with the door latch assembly, so I'm not sure what we'll do there. I may pull it out one hot summer day and see if a little heat will soften the grease in the motor to test that hypothesis. The passenger door lock will still lock after about 4-6 times pressing the lock button, but still refuses to unlock with the switch.

    Since since the dash lit completely up when we moved the truck out of the shop the time this trouble started, I figured I'd take it for a bit of a drive and see how things go. Well, they went okay. The truck is still a blast to drive. Luckily, the MIL was off, but I still decided to scan it just to make sure. Hmm, P0545 - bank 1 O2 sensor voltage low. While running the truck and running the logger, the curves for all 4 sensors looked pretty normal. I guess I'll have to ride and log so I can get a closer look at what the numbers are. Not sure if just throwing a new O2 sensor at it will fix the issue.

    Bummed that it's up for inspection this month. We may miss that deadline.....
    I asked a buddy who I haven't seen in years who recently retired form an automotive electrical business about your problem. He stated to me that Chrysler used what was called an "intelligent power module" all over their cars and trucks. He is surprised you are not getting some type of "bus" code. This "module" acts like the relays of old only they translate all these signals to "digital". He suggests to pull every fuse and relay and re-insert them to try and get the "bus" network alive again.
    He also suggests as others have to get the electrical schematic to show where these hidden modules are. He is quite certain that's where your problem lies. Your truck only having 4000 miles on it may not have experienced another problem he saw plenty of on Chryslers and that was "rub through" of low voltage wires where they were inserted w/o grommets or near sharp edges.

    I don't know which scanner you have but he also stated that the do it yourself OBD readers you can buy from $40-$100 were worthless in finding this kind of problem as they are not sophisticated enough such as the $300-$500 units the dealerships use.

    Hope what he relates as least gives a clue here.

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    Got to mess with the truck some today. I know our '12 Caprice has O2 sensors that are VERY sensitive to even the slightest exhaust leak, so checked that the exhaust was nice and tight upstream of the O2 sensors. They seem to be, and I felt nothing around the header to headpipe joint when I started it, so I suspect the connection is tight. I just may have a failing sensor. I am guessing that the 'Bank 1 O2 sensor' is the driver's side unit up near the headers (I have shortys on)?

    While testing the electrical issue, and thinking about what others have said about the battery, I got the volt meter out and checked the battery. It read about 13.4, or so volts at rest. I turned the headlights on, thinking that was a good test, and checked the voltage. It was something like 12.7, then dropped to 12.6, and so forth, in about a minute. I think I stopped the test after it reached about 12.4 volts. I may pull the battery and get it load tested tomorrow to see if it is good. It is only 2 years old. I know that age really doesn't matter much, but one would hope to get a few years out of them, at least.

    After the test, I hopped in and started the truck. The air bag and ABS lights lit and stayed on!!

    Sigh. It's back on the battery tender, and I'll go load test the battery tomorrow.

    Just another question, because I haven't gotten to the Central Timer Module; is the Dakota equipped with a standard CTM, or a high-line CTM? Thanks.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    Battery tested good, so back in the truck it went. I waited until the Battery Tender went all green and hopped in and started it. Got ABS/Brake/Air Bag lights again. This time, the stereo would power on, but the fan wouldn't.

    I turned the engine off, turned the key to the on position without starting it, and turned the HVAC switch to on. The blower started blowing air. I turned it off, turned the key off, then started the truck again. All the lights on the dash were out! WTF?!?

    This thing truly has my mind blown at this point!

    On a side note, HOW the hell do you replace the driver's side front O2 sensor?!? The harness goes up the side of the transmission, under a couple of fuel lines, and behind the transmission wiring bundle. I'm not 100% sure I can even see the connector from under the truck, or in the engine compartment.

    Is this one of those things where Step 1 is 'Remove engine'?
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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    Finally got the front driver's side O2 sensor out. My God! I'd love to find the engineer who designed the sensor harness connector location and provide him with a couple of kicks to the nards for that one!! To get TO the connector, I had to:
    Unclip the shifter link to the transmission and unclip the cable casing from it's mount and move it as far back as possible.
    Unclip the transmission power harness from the fuel hard line.
    Pull the transmission harness bundle between the fuel hard line and the transmission casing and over to the frame. Secure it out of the way with safety wire.
    Unclip yet another clip from the fuel hard line and move it forward and out of the way.
    Remove the three sheet metal screws from the giant razor blade, er, heat shield, and pull it out of the way.
    Cut the O2 harness connector anchor off the electrical harness bundle it was secured to.
    Jamb my hands up between that harness and the transmission tunnel to grasp the O2 harness and pull it over to the low side of the harness bundle.
    Fidget with the connector until I can finally pull it loose.
    Thread the damned O2 harness from over the wiring bundle and _under_ the fuel hard line ( I swear they wrapped the O2 sensor harness around those parts to keep them together during assembly.)

    Gather my assortment of wrenches/sockets/extensions/pull handles/ratchets to find the right combination to get the O2 sensor out of the exhaust pipe. Since the truck only has about 3800 miles on it, I wasn't expecting it to take much to pop it loose. It didn't. A 7/8" open end wrench and another boxed end wrench to use as an extender allowed me to pop it loose. When it popped loose, however, my arm hit the pinch weld at the bottom of the body creating quite the bruise.

    I finally got the damned thing out. I now have to return the sensor I bought for the one with the 13" harness. That will happen this weekend.

    Still trying to figure out why the stuff in the dash doesn't work and the ABS and Brake lights come on when I start it on occasion. But if I can get it so that the O2 sensor works, I can probably get it inspected so I can troubleshoot that issue later.
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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