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Thread: cam lsa

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    Quote Originally Posted by slammedR/T View Post
    I wasn't much of a comp cam person neither but when Eddie helped me decide on a cam he talked me into a custom comp cam as they are one of the few cam makers with a 4/7 swap cam core for small block Mopar. I have always been partial to Lunati myself, but I will go with comp again now.
    Oh great...My Slammed hand me down cam sucks now.....?

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  2. #27




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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
    Oh great...My Slammed hand me down cam sucks now.....?

    That was a lunati wasn't it?

    It is also on a 110 lsa
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    110 LSA?
    I guess, i installed as per cam card, can't remember. Whatever it is, it works.
    11.27 @ 118.23
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    You damn right it works!
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  5. #30

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    Have always liked Lunati. There was a genius cam grinder by the name of UDHarold (Berkshire?) that worked for them some time ago. I believe the guy is recently deceased.

    Pertinent to this thread: It seem opinions run all over the place as to specific cams for power adders. I still contend it is more of figuring overlap and the lsa should follow but that thinking was good when people were sending Christmas cards on papyrus. Today.... I dunno

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    I remember there was a time that lunati cams were breaking right in the center , talking about 15 years ago, this happened to a few of my friends in there SBCs ,

  7. #32




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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    Have always liked Lunati. There was a genius cam grinder by the name of UDHarold (Berkshire?) that worked for them some time ago. I believe the guy is recently deceased.

    Pertinent to this thread: It seem opinions run all over the place as to specific cams for power adders. I still contend it is more of figuring overlap and the lsa should follow but that thinking was good when people were sending Christmas cards on papyrus. Today.... I dunno
    Overlap and LSA are related to one another that is why you wider lsa camshafts also have less overlap in them.
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by slammedR/T View Post
    Overlap and LSA are related to one another that is why you wider lsa camshafts also have less overlap in them.
    They most certainly are. But the other part of the equation that most certainly affects overlap is duration. You can have 5 identical say 110 lsa cams but depending on duration , markedly change degrees of overlap.

    I guess it is more certainly understandable that people buying cams today don't want to be bothered with details. Off the shelf cams are sold with hp profiles for most people or where one wants most power for a desired rpm range. I was more comfortable with acquiring overlap degrees first with a particular application or goal and then let the lsa fall to wherever it was supposed to be based on valve timing. Overlaps of 53*-75* to as high as a 100* did different things to performance. I just understood these better.
    As of now, I am venturing into a realm I have absolutely no background in (power adders: superchargers/nitrous) I can only assume that for a s/c, you'd want more duration on the exhaust side. Other stuff such as nitrous or turbo, may now relate to differentiated valve events compared to a super charger. As they apply for a supercharged 360, I do suppose there are tried and true applications. I am just not finding many variations.

    I had to be a "detail freak" in my racing days. For all the current info out there, details I'd be comfortable with are often not included.
    Last edited by arro222; 12-03-2016 at 02:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    They most certainly are. But the other part of the equation that most certainly affects overlap is duration. You can have 5 identical say 110 lsa cams but depending on duration , markedly change degrees of overlap.

    I guess it is more certainly understandable that people buying cams today don't want to be bothered with details. Off the shelf cams are sold with hp profiles for most people. I was more comfortable with acquiring overlap degrees first with a particular application or goal and then let the lsa fall to wherever it was supposed to be based on duration. Overlaps of 53*-75* did different things to performance. I just understood these better.
    Your average hot rodder don't understand how a camshaft works, they just want to buy a cam they buddy has that sounds good In they car.
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  10. #35

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    I like my Wooten! cams to go puckita puckita at idle and Wooten! Wooten! when I wap the throttle.

    I thought about a cam change and talked to Ryan at Shady Dell about it.
    We agreed that adding a little more boost would be easier and just as effective.

    Converted my hydraulics to Danno solids, and run them at .008" tappet clearance because I hate the noise.
    Duner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    I like my Wooten! cams to go puckita puckita at idle and Wooten! Wooten! when I wap the throttle.

    I thought about a cam change and talked to Ryan at Shady Dell about it.
    We agreed that adding a little more boost would be easier and just as effective.

    Converted my hydraulics to Danno solids, and run them at .008" tappet clearance because I hate the noise.
    0.008" hot or cold?


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick 660r View Post
    0.008" hot or cold?
    Cold.
    Or as cold as 110° ambient makes it.
    Duner
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  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    I like my Wooten! cams to go puckita puckita at idle and Wooten! Wooten! when I wap the throttle.

    I thought about a cam change and talked to Ryan at Shady Dell about it.
    We agreed that adding a little more boost would be easier and just as effective.

    Converted my hydraulics to Danno solids, and run them at .008" tappet clearance because I hate the noise.
    That's very Hawkish of you. Always dealt with solids for the higher hp engines and they remain true to my heart. Even liked the noise. You'll probably try solid rollers next..


    BTW Duner, are you running a reverse pattern cam on yours?

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by slammedR/T View Post
    Your average hot rodder don't understand how a camshaft works, they just want to buy a cam they buddy has that sounds good In they car.

    Just so their cars go thorkada-thorkada. Sometimes they're missing some power with needless or excessive overlap. Hey...it's what sells Harleys and they have the sound patented no less.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    That's very Hawkish of you. Always dealt with solids for the higher hp engines and they remain true to my heart. Even liked the noise. You'll probably try solid rollers next..


    BTW Duner, are you running a reverse pattern cam on yours?
    No. It's just an off the shelf Comp cam from their offerings back in '92. It's nothing special at all.

    This current engine is VERY noisy mechanically. Between the solid roller action, roller rockers, loose forged pistons slapping when cold and maybe even some wrist pin noise thrown in - it sounds like it's coming apart when you hit the starter. Of course it's sounded like that since 2007.
    Duner
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  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    No. It's just an off the shelf Comp cam from their offerings back in '92. It's nothing special at all.

    This current engine is VERY noisy mechanically. Between the solid roller action, roller rockers, loose forged pistons slapping when cold and maybe even some wrist pin noise thrown in - it sounds like it's coming apart when you hit the starter. Of course it's sounded like that since 2007.
    I find it interesting that for boosted vehicles, a lot of the fast ones have a cam that is "nothing special at all". Says a lot for what boost can make up for.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    I find it interesting that for boosted vehicles, a lot of the fast ones have a cam that is "nothing special at all". Says a lot for what boost can make up for.
    Boost doesn't seem to care about intake runner length or plenum size or even care that much about throttle body opening size - when at WOT. I'm sure those things DO matter, but not as much as they do when NA only.

    I'm still running a stock sized throttle body on my heap.
    It's a nice shiny F&B, but it's the same size as my stock one.
    Since the boost pressure is measured below the throttle body - the boost pressure could be 24 psi above the TB. The turbo doesn't care - or know.
    Duner
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  18. #43

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    Well it seems that a "just right" cam configuration has to do with the type of blower. Centrifugals acquire boost later as opposed to screw type sc's. I know some cam (and blower) manufacturers have suggested cams with some overlap and lsa's of 110 to make up for lack of bottom end torque. My truck has no traction as is even with it's anemic power so I do not believe increased torque at lower rpms is necessarily a good thing with a pwr adder. However with little overlap, part throttle street response is compromised (or can even this be tuned in?).

    I can only "assume" that a 112 lsa set in with 2-4* advance with a 10-12point spread between intake and exhaust duration perhaps is a compromise. Not enough guys with centriguals with build or cam details seem to respond to these threads to start making reasonable comparisons.

  19. #44

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    I dont know where you get the info you are typing but boost doesnt like much overlap and 114 is more of a preferred LSA for boost.


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  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteRT View Post
    I dont know where you get the info you are typing but boost doesnt like much overlap and 114 is more of a preferred LSA for boost.
    So I've been hearing and in some cases...seeing and of course understanding the "why's" as we know it. We also built my buddies 64 Vette with a cam of 117 lsa and he went 9.87 on regular street tires. This article is about small block Chevy's and throws another "wrench" in the mix: http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...y-small-block/. The differentiation in the two companies "small blocks" shouldn't be that far removed or so I'm thinking with what little I know of Mopar stuff.

    I'm glad and was hoping you'd chime in as you have a rather large dose of experience in this matter. Don't know if you ever got to experiment beyond "tried and true". In my experience, it always paid to go "outside the box" just to see what would happen but this is what factory money paid for. I simply do not have the money to experiment this time around and kinda need to get it right the first time.

    This next copy is from a company called "Blower Drive Services" or BDS company. They think as follows:

    "Choosing the proper camshaft would be the most important requirement for a blower motor. An improper cam will cause a variety of problems that can easily be avoided by following a few simple guidelines. Hydraulic cams are recommended if you intend to drive the vehicle frequently, requiring little or no maintenance, and the maximum engine RPM's are kept around 6500 or lower. Roller rocker arms are recommended. Flat tappet and roller cams are recommended for high performance applications especially where the engine will see high RPM's. Exact camshaft specifications vary depending on the performance level you wish to attain. BDS offers ten different types or stages of cam grinds specifically made for blower motors. Refer to camshaft specs listed in tech info for BDS' individual engine camshaft specifications and their intended uses.
    If you wish to purchase your cam from one of the many fine camshaft manufacturers, we suggest using our camshaft specs as a guidline. Extremely high lift and long duration cams are recommended for high RPM, high performance racing only.
    The lobe center of the cam will play an important role in determining the performance characteristics of an engine. Wide lobe centers (112 to 114 degrees etc.) will create higher cylinder pressure providing more horsepower with cooler burning fuel such as alcohol and methanol. WE HAVE FOUND 110° LOBE CENTERS TO PRODUCE THE BEST OVERALL POWER ON GASOLINE.
    Whatever cam you choose, make sure that it will operate and perform properly in the RPM range required for your application."

    So, with being informed of all these "differentiations" it makes the "uninformed" (me) scratch their heads and attempt to seek a "middle ground". In my experience, middle ground is always an attempt to quantify doubt which is not a great way to go. It's as if one is being thrown in the ocean without the knowledge of swimming but saving one's ass because one knows how to float.
    Last edited by arro222; 12-05-2016 at 07:42 PM.

  21. #46




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    A blower set-up will be different than a turbo set-up, blowers make power lower in the rpm range and there use a cam profile closer to a N/A set-up. turbos make high rpm power and gain boost as the rpm increases and there fore tend to like a wider lsa and less overlap.

    Like Duner said, plenum size and intake runner and throttle body size isn't as critical as with a N/A set-up but it does still matter.
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  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by slammedR/T View Post
    A blower set-up will be different than a turbo set-up, blowers make power lower in the rpm range and there use a cam profile closer to a N/A set-up. turbos make high rpm power and gain boost as the rpm increases and there fore tend to like a wider lsa and less overlap.

    Like Duner said, plenum size and intake runner and throttle body size isn't as critical as with a N/A set-up but it does still matter.
    Centrifugals s/c's kind of fall in the turbo realm in that they are relying on more rpm's as well to fall into their wheel house.

  23. #48




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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    Centrifugals s/c's kind of fall in the turbo realm in that they are relying on more rpm's as well to fall into their wheel house.
    Yes they do, that was why I said blower which is more of an old school roots style term, the twin screw big blowers are sweet too.
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  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by arro222 View Post
    Centrifugals s/c's kind of fall in the turbo realm in that they are relying on more rpm's as well to fall into their wheel house.
    I was running a centrifugal blower on mine before I went to turbo. It was very much rpm dependent. The higher you revved it the more boost it made.

    I've sized my turbo to come in earlier than would be optimal for drag racing or max power output. I wanted instant boost and throttle response and that's what it has. It's a torque monster.
    Duner
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  25. #50

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    OK, just for comparison sake.
    The same engine. Same parts except for source of boost.
    AMAZING difference in how it acts - and a bunch of time off the timeslip too!
    Top chart is overlayed dyno pulls with Vortech blower - all at 15 psi of boost.... when playing with cam sync settings.
    Notice that the boost climbs with rpm - and so does the power.
    It used to bog with this cam at below 3,000 rpm - so I ended up with a 4500 comvertor to compensate.



    This chart is same engine, cam, heads, etc. with turbo.
    Bigger number is 18 psi of boost - with race gas ignition tables.
    Smaller number is 12 psi of boost - with pump gas ignition tables.
    Full boost just about right from the hit - even at less than 3,000 rpm.
    I had the converter redone to only stall to 3500 now.


    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
    5.9 Turbocharged RC in black - 10's

    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

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