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Thread: Supercharger and crank support

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Default Supercharger and crank support

    It's something I've been wanting to make. I now have access to the machine shop at school since I'm now taking a machine design class. I'm meeting with my instructor on Tuesday to talk about how to make this. I currently have a 7.5" crank pulley and a 3.2" SC pulley. At 7000rpm the SC pulley will be at 16,406 rpm. I've found a sealed self aligning bearing rated at 17,000. I have yet to look in loads but hopefully this will work

    http://www.skf.com/us/products/beari...did=1140112200

    I would like to find left and right threaded rod ends that I could press these bearings into. The Paxton pulley uses six 5/16" bolts that thread in the dampner. I have an idea of using a 3" or 4" OD solid aluminum rod and turning it down so that there will be a lip making it centric with the pulley. The Paxton adaptor plate is just like this. I'll then bolt through it like the rest of the pulleys. The adaptor will be turned to accept the bearing and a retaining bolt. The SC side will just need a quality spacer and longer bolt. The rod between the two will be simple.






    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    the bearing I posted the link to is what vortech used to use in their blower braces and they were known to fail. Kurgan uses NTN bearings. They have a much better selection and a much higher price tag.

    Starts on page 57

    http://www.ntnamericas.com/en/websit...ngs_lowres.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Looking at bearing number 2300 on page 61. Need to figure out what my belt tension is.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    I've already created this exact set up. It's great!
    Chad
    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T



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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Care to share details?


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    I'm think of an adaptor like this.




    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Subscribed. It seems like every time I get in here I find a new upgrade I would like for my Paxton.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Filthy Filbert
    Nope. No engineers here. We're all just a buncha dum red neck monkeys scratching our asses and flinging poo at each other, wondering why our magnums are slow, expensive, and can't get good MPGs

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    I'm also considering a separate brace for the crank snout and a separate brace for the sc


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    I would like to do a new tensioner setup in the near future, along with a 8in crank pulley at some point.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Filthy Filbert
    Nope. No engineers here. We're all just a buncha dum red neck monkeys scratching our asses and flinging poo at each other, wondering why our magnums are slow, expensive, and can't get good MPGs

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Changing the tensioner fixed my slip issues but it's caused me to find a way to support the crankshaft snout.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    found out my school has a CNC machine that the Baja race team uses. Going to join the group tomorrow lol


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

  12. #12

    Kingst3r's Avatar
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    How much tension do you have on that damn belt LOL

    My R/T build (rebuild) thread

    http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/...d.php?t=133167
    Quote Originally Posted by 70Cuda383 View Post
    It's an emissions thing. someone, somewhere said that the millions of gallons of gas that evaporate to the atmosphere every year was killing tree frogs on some south african isalnd or some shit, those endangered tree frogs can suck my left nut.

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    enough to make the front seal leak. You can watch the crank pull towards the SC when you tighten down on the belt. I destroyed the original Paxton bracket the first time I tested the tensioner.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Fixed my stutter issue and this is the next thing on my to do list. The Paxton pulley bolt is 3/8" so that's the ID I have to work with. I've decided to go with SFK 6202-2RSL which far exceeds my load and RPM needs.

    http://www.skf.com/us/products/beari...t=imperialUnit

    I will need to press a bushing into the bearing for the SC pulley. I am not sure what I'll do about the crank bolt. I could use a larger bolt or make it the same at the SC pulley.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#8486a449/=1626j2x

    Because of the OD of the bearing I'll have to go with fairly large rod ends. Here is what I'm thinking about using but I need to look into fine threading them for left and right hand. I also need to make sure I can get inserts for the piece of tubing that will go between the rod ends. Gates calls for a belt tension of 240 lbs so that means a load of 500 lbs min on each rod end assuming that the tension and slack side of the belt are parallel with each other and equal which technicall it isn't. In reality my tension is a lot more but the load due to the belt is also shared between the engine/SC bearings and the brace bearings. I did an FEA on the rod ends with a load of 500 lbs because I was unease about the thin bearing wall (0.0866 in). The FEA was conducted with the material set to annealed 4130 and the rod end itself is 4140 so the safety factor should be even higher. As of now its around 86 LOL.



    Link to Rod ends

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#57635k75/=1626pfs

    The adaptor that will bolt to the crank will be 6061 Alum with a helicoil insert. I need to double check some stuff on the truck but hopefully I'll get parts ordered tomorrow. I'm curious about the issues I'll run into.

    Edit: looking back at the FEA, I think I can fixture it and apply the load differently to get a more practical result. Going to pick someone's brain about it tomorrow.
    Last edited by Sick 660r; 01-25-2017 at 05:51 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    I have seen this with a hand full of the lightnings, with big twin screw blowers. Never with centrifugal superchargers. Once they were hitting near 1000 hp running mid 9's it was putting too much stress on the crank snout bending them and throwing the belt or on a couple occasions snapping the snout of the crank off.
    To combat this they would drill the crank snout way back and use a longer bolt, to push the stress point back into the crank.

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    I'd post pics of my set up but damn thing won't let me. Files are too large I guess. Looks like your on the right track!
    Chad
    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T



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    http://megaswf.com/s/2536929

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    Quote Originally Posted by krs1r/t View Post
    I have seen this with a hand full of the lightnings, with big twin screw blowers. Never with centrifugal superchargers. Once they were hitting near 1000 hp running mid 9's it was putting too much stress on the crank snout bending them and throwing the belt or on a couple occasions snapping the snout of the crank off.
    To combat this they would drill the crank snout way back and use a longer bolt, to push the stress point back into the crank.
    Interesting but makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99blackrt View Post
    I'd post pics of my set up but damn thing won't let me. Files are too large I guess. Looks like your on the right track!
    Thanks. What did you use for tubing between ends? Pics please! I don't think I did that fixture on the FEA correctly but it's still a decent estimate. For tubing I'm looking at premade 7075 alum. They use them for rock crawler suspension. I would much rather use 6061 with threaded inserts.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

  18. #18

    Friggin' R/T's Avatar
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    Got a drawing or rendering of how this will go together? Can't visualize it mentally right now lol

    2002 Flame Red RC R/T
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    Hey, just reading through the posting. When it comes to bearings please speak with an industry bearing expert. A bearing expert can certainly aid you in obtaining the best bearing for the intended use given all the information. NTN, SKF and Timkin are three manufactures that I would recommend. Watch out for counterfeit bearings, yes they are out there.

    I really dig the design work and fabrication your doing, very impressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friggin' R/T View Post
    Got a drawing or rendering of how this will go together? Can't visualize it mentally right now lol
    I don't have a complete design at the moment. Too many unknowns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggsy72 View Post
    Hey, just reading through the posting. When it comes to bearings please speak with an industry bearing expert. A bearing expert can certainly aid you in obtaining the best bearing for the intended use given all the information. NTN, SKF and Timkin are three manufactures that I would recommend. Watch out for counterfeit bearings, yes they are out there.

    I really dig the design work and fabrication your doing, very impressive.
    Thanks. As for bearings, I've managed to get all bearing part numbers from multiple brace manufactures. There have been a few that failed miserably and others that did very well. I've compared them all and made my best decision.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Going to call SKF tomorrow to get their recommendation because I would prefer a smaller OD bearing. As of now I will go with the 1" shank rod ends because it will give me the most material around the bearing. I will turn the shank down to 5/8-18TPI and face the bearing area to reduce overall size.

    I looked into ways to calculate or measure belt tension but the gauges only go up to 180lbs and the digital ones are too expensive. The formulas for tension are useless when there are a lot of pullies. I will just assume its 250lbs. I am also going to assume that the SC and crank bearings support half the load, therefore each rod end will be subjected to 250lbs and the tubing between the two rod ends will need to support 500lbs.

    The distance between the crank and the SC is approximately 22". I figure each rod end will reduce that by 3" and the threaded inserts for the tubing will reduce the tubing length by 1" each. The part of the tubing with the threaded inserts and the rod ends can be considered solid. That gives me a tubing length of 14". Summit offers threaded inserts for 1" OD and wall thickness of 0.058", 0.065", 0.083" and 0.095". Assuming a Pin Pin connection and a modulus of elasticity value of 29,000 KSI for 4130 steel, the buckling load is approximately 37,000 lbs for 0.083" wall which gives me a safety factor of 74. I should simulate the loads to calculate deflection but I doubt its anything to worry about.

    The bolt for the SC is only designed to keep the pulley on but with the brace it will have to support a shear force as well. A grade 8 bolt has an ultimate tensile strength of 150 ksi and the shear strength is typically 60% of that. This results in a shear strength of about 9,900 lbs and that gives me a safety factor of about 40. Other than threading into the aluminum hub on the crank there really isn't a reason to increase bolt size on the crank end.

    At this point I still need to order all material and a lathe tool so that I can machine the rod ends for a retaining clip for the bearing. I'm sure things will change but posting this is a good way for me to look back at notes.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Spoke with SKF and they recommended the same bearing but with metal shields to increase the operating temps.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    Some parts the get the ball rolling.



    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    I used solid aluminum stock and drilled the ends out and machined for the end links.
    Chad
    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T



    Mods
    Paxton Novi 2k Supercharger @ 12lbs, 2.02R/T Stage III port/polish w/5 angle valve job, 58mm F&B TB, M1 4bbl, 1.6 HS Roller Rockers, Custom Cam, JP double roller timing chain, MP lifters, Custom Long Tube Headers, Dual 3" Exhaust (no cats), SCT, Viper 3000 Stall Converter, 4.56 Yukon Gears, Caltracs, M&H 325/45/17s



    http://megaswf.com/s/2536929

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
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    What aluminum, OD and length?


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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