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Thread: Loping Idle, Stalling when Stopping, Running Rich

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    Default Loping Idle, Stalling when Stopping, Running Rich

    Ok so I've chased my tail to the point of dang near pulling my hair out. I've had this issue for quit some time, haven't drove the truck in a long time because I was frustrated, low on funds, and can't for the life of me figure out what the hell is going on.

    When I start it, it has a lope like I have a big cam. The exhaust smells of fuel and stalls out when coming to a stop. I have to blip the throttle to keep it running.

    The only CEL's are for Open Injector Circuit 3 & 6. I've check the wires for continuity, resistance, and voltage. All of which check out perfect. I've unplugged the injectors when running and can tell those cylinders drop out so I know they're firing. The truck fired up and ran beautifully when I put it back together. Idled perfect, drove perfect, and got good gas mileage. It is making a sucking noise from the throttle body that is fairly loud. I've check around the manifold, vacuum lines, and TB for a vacuum leak. I found one near the TB and fixed it. The idle did improve but barely. I'll list what has been done to the truck prior to these problems and what has been done since then to try to fix it.

    Done 100 miles before the loping and stalling.
    New rebuilt factory heads
    1.7RR
    Mopar M1
    52mm TB
    Shorty Headers
    3in single exhaust

    Done after the problems came about.
    Compression check (cylinders are at 150 across the board.
    New IAC
    New MAP
    New TPS
    New coil
    New Mopar performance PCM (to rule out my factory one)
    New wires and plugs
    New injectors
    New distributor cap & rotor
    New camshaft position sensor
    New crankshaft position sensor

    I'm desperately seeking guidance on what to do next? I miss my truck and want to be able to drive it so badly.
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

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    ScojoDak's Avatar
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    Have you had the fuel sync reset? If you pulled the dizzy, this must be done. Also, the pcm needs about a tank of gas to relearn the changes you made. Finally, after it settles down, get a tune.
    If you haven't lived for something, you'll die for nothing.

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    uwntsumrtII's Avatar
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    Are all the injectors plugged into the correct spot?

    Rockers adjusted correctly?
    Fu·ror noun \ˈfyu̇r-ˌȯr, -ər\ : an angry or maniacal fit

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    nevr2fast01's Avatar
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    What rob said, i have found that improperly adjusted rockers will throw injector circuit codes so def check them out!
    1999 solar fire reboot
    Gas-Beat-Repeat

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    The cap and button were replaced after it started acting like this, I never removed the whole distributor assembly. The 1.7RR are non adjustable. Also I've double checked the injector order. It ran fine for 100 miles like it is now and then up out of no where started acting like it is now. It's dumping enough fuel that it's getting in my oil, atleast it was prior to me replacing the crank position sensor yesterday. Should I just fill it up and drive it till it relearns this all?
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    Should I try resetting IAC counts? I noticed after reading up on it that if I cover the IAC port on the top of the throttle body it kills the truck. The throttle body I'm using now is a ported factory TB. I'm thinking now that the blades are closed to much and not allowing in enough air and the IAC is trying to compensate for it. I figure it's worth a shot since it's recommend for larger TB's and the fact these blades are larger it might need tweaking some. The truck drives fine down the road but has a bad loping idle when sitting still and also stalling the truck out when stopping, requiring me to two foot it to keep it running. http://www.dakotart.com/HowTo/Adjust..._IACcounts.pdf
    Last edited by screamingdemon; 01-25-2015 at 05:39 PM.
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

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    nevr2fast01's Avatar
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    Check the battery ends, run it for a short while and pull the plugs, dont drive it too long or you could wash the rings and damage your motor
    1999 solar fire reboot
    Gas-Beat-Repeat

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    I got it idling when i stop and the idle quality is a good bit better but it's still rough and I have fuel vapor coming out of the exhaust. I don't know what's going on with the injector circuits. I can't make heads or tails of it.
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

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    nevr2fast01's Avatar
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    check those rockers.......
    1999 solar fire reboot
    Gas-Beat-Repeat

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    I checked then before and they were torqued to spec.
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

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    Hugh Jassole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingdemon View Post
    I checked then before and they were torqued to spec.

    There is more to check than that. The geometry could be off in your application. This could result in valves hanging open or not opening enough, depending on the scenario. How is the roller sweep across the valve tip ?
    "the vast majority of the people on this website are such tight asses that they could probably squeeze out diamonds - but they'd never spend the money to buy the coal' - Steve F. 2012

    "Don't be obsessed with your desires Danny. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, "A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a doughnut with no hole is a Danish" - Ty Webb, 1980

  12. #12
    Motorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingdemon View Post
    It ran fine for 100 miles like it is now and then up out of no where started acting like it is now. It's dumping enough fuel that it's getting in my oil,..................
    This is the most important clue......
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

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    screamingdemon's Avatar
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    Clue to what?
    1999 Dakota R/T
    Mopar PCM, M1 Manifold, 52mm TB, shorty headers, 1.7RR, 3in single Powerstick exhaust
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
    Hard IC Pipes, NGR BOV, 3000GT K&N FIPK, MR 3" downpipe, Thermal R&D catback

  14. #14
    Motorhead's Avatar
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    When's the last time the (upstream) oxygen sensors were looked at or changed?????
    Pull your spark plugs and look at the color of ALL of them.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingdemon View Post
    The only CEL's are for Open Injector Circuit 3 & 6. I've check the wires for continuity, resistance, and voltage. All of which check out perfect. I've unplugged the injectors when running and can tell those cylinders drop out so I know they're firing.................... It is making a sucking noise from the throttle body that is fairly loud. I've check around the manifold, vacuum lines, and TB for a vacuum leak. I found one near the TB and fixed it. The idle did improve but barely..............
    Here is a thought:
    You put on an M1 right?? Well then check #3 and #6 for vacuum leaks around the intake-to-heads area. With it idling spray a little carb cleaner(or even wd/40) around those areas to see if the idle changes. If it does change the idle it's being sucked into a leaking area that will need corrected.

    Also as mentioned you should have already zeroed in on #3 & #6 rockers and valvetrain because of the injector codes.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

  16. #16
    Motorhead's Avatar
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    Hint:
    Most salvage yards won't miss a couple of used 02 sensors, just make sure they are four wire and have a nice brown or grey color to the tips. ...
    Your old connectors will need to be reused, and soilding is the best method.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

  17. #17


    OG DRTC

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    Here's a though, try swapping the injectors around to different cylinders and see if the codes for injector circuit follows. Also, heck to make sure you don't have nicked or improperly sealing injecotor o-rings. Hopefully you replaced them all when you did the manifold swap. Cheaper and easier than buying more parts to throw at it.


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    Here's a though, try swapping the injectors around to different cylinders and see if the codes for injector circuit follows. Also, heck to make sure you don't have nicked or improperly sealing injecotor o-rings. Hopefully you replaced them all when you did the manifold swap. Cheaper and easier than buying more parts to throw at it.
    The OP has already mentioned installing new injectors, which is really no different than swapping used ones.

    The o-rings would be an idea, but then again it seems "a bit out there" that it would be the same cylinders with new injectors installed.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

  19. #19
    Motorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    Here's a though, try swapping the injectors around to different cylinders and see if the codes for injector circuit follows. Also, heck to make sure you don't have nicked or improperly sealing injecotor o-rings. Hopefully you replaced them all when you did the manifold swap. Cheaper and easier than buying more parts to throw at it.
    Oh and as far as throwing parts at it goes, that advice is a bit late now. Again, read the op's first post because it already mentions what he has tried and it's a long list. The oxygen sensors are the only thing left that hasn't been looked at or even mentioned.

    Keep in mind that 02 sensor related issues don't always throw codes or CELs.

    As I remember when my UPSTREAM 02 sensors acted up (twice) it threw an injector code each time.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Jassole View Post
    There is more to check than that. The geometry could be off in your application. This could result in valves hanging open or not opening enough, depending on the scenario. How is the roller sweep across the valve tip ?
    This would be my next area to check after 02 sensors ^^^^^^
    ...actually I would check it anyway, period.
    Seriously, this NEEDS to be done ANY time you change valvetrain components, such as 1.7 rockers hint, hint.....and upon removal/installation of the heads. Oh and NEVER assume the P.O. did any of the previous mods CORRECTLY.

    Do keep in mind that improper valvetrain geometry (from installing 1.7s) could cause your injector codes as already mentioned (twice).
    This would normally be corrected by changing the length of the pushrods.

    More info on what Hugh is talking about here:
    https://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Val...nGeometry.aspx

    CHOP, CHOP.

    Oh and you will be NEEDING one of these to do the job.....and a modified or solid lifter. All 16 valvetrains need to be checked too.
    $_12.JPG
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

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    OG DRTC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    Oh and as far as throwing parts at it goes, that advice is a bit late now. Again, read the op's first post because it already mentions what he has tried and it's a long list. The oxygen sensors are the only thing left that hasn't been looked at or even mentioned.

    Keep in mind that 02 sensor related issues don't always throw codes or CELs.

    As I remember when my UPSTREAM 02 sensors acted up (twice) it threw an injector code each time.
    Notice I said throwing "more" parts at it. Check the simple things first that don't cost you anything more. But alas, you know better somehow. Even though now you are just piggy backing on others advice.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    Notice I said throwing "more" parts at it.
    More or less it don't really matter @ this point cause it already happened. You did notice (read) that I asked the OP to remove and inspect ALL the spark plugs as a precaution to just replacing the 02 sensors right? It's post #14 in case you didn't read it too. An injector issue would show one or two plugs. An 02 sensor issue will show left bank, right bank or all plugs rich. You did read the part about it running rich right Brian??

    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    But alas, you know better somehow.
    It's not rocket science:
    1). I read the OPs first post and noticed that it stated that he had ALREADY tried new injectors.
    2). I have had simular experiences first hand that came back to 02 sensors.
    3). OP has tried everything else but the 02 sensors and they are known to cause the described symtoms.



    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    Even though now you are just piggy backing on others advice.
    Sorry, but I disagree again. I still think it's the 02 sensors based on the info that I acutually READ from the OP. Hugh gave some good advice based on a bad experience he had with the valvetrain on one of his motors. Again, I READ the OP's list of parts as showing the 1.7 rockers and reinforced Hugh's advice. The valvetrain geometery needs to be checked regardless of the culprit of the OP's issues. Piggy backing??? Label it what you want.

    I don't see it being an injector issue, but I could see it being a case of swaped injector plugs.......sorry if I just piggy backed you Brian.
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

  23. #23

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    Evidently quite a few people have had this loud sucking problem coming from their TB. And I find it hard to believe that nobody has found a solid answer to why it's happening. I don't know jack sh_t about these trucks so I can't wait to hear how this gets resolved. Mine made that sucking sound on and off sometimes idling and sometimes revving it to say 2000 rpms. It still ran alright but I knew something was wrong. How serious of a problem it was I didn't know. After I finished putting my new plugs in it was after dark and I had crossed the #5 and #7 cylinder wires because they were hard to trace. Didn't know until I cranked it up though. Well that little bit of sucking noise I had became real loud (scary loud) and it was because of the crossed wires. And I'm sure, because after I swapped to the correct cylinders the sucking noise went away completely. Like I said, before the new plugs it was doing it off and on. That said I have no idea why the op's truck is dumping extra fuel into his cylinders. But couldn't it be that the vacuum noise is because of the plugs fouling out from the extra fuel? I'm sorry if I missed it but how old are his plugs? From what happened to me I'm sold on the plugs being the culprit for the loud vacuum noise. Why they fouled out I don't know, that's for you guys to figure out. I would definitely check the plugs for starters.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    ..............I would definitely check the plugs for starters.
    Agreed, it don't cost shit and they can "speak volumes".
    I think most are too lazy to pull em. They will tell you a lot about whats going on inside.
    Sorry I didn't mean to "piggy back" you.
    ....or did you "piggy back" me???
    Your problem isn't the problem. Your reaction is the problem.

    http://www.dakotart.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14597&dateline=143749  2005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    Agreed, it don't cost shit and they can "speak volumes".
    I think most are too lazy to pull em. They will tell you a lot about whats going on inside.
    I would still check them but he did mention that he put new plugs and wires in. So we can rule out being lazy here, lol. No pun intended but I think he's done quite a bit to try and solve his problem.

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