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Thread: Alpha prototype dyno day results

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    Blown and Squirted

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    Default Alpha prototype dyno day results

    On Saturday I got some dyno time with the alpha prototype kit.

    Configuration was as follows:
    MX422 (2.2) "Upgrade Kit" -2x65mm SRT-10 Throttle Body, -6AN rails
    extra large pulley for 6-8psi (standard pulley makes 11-13psi)
    140k miles stock long block
    mopar .600 springs, retainers, trick flow pushrods, hughes 1.6 RRs
    mopar PPH headers, 2.5 duals, x pipe, cats, magnafows
    4k stall converter (too loose for this combo, see below)
    727 transmission
    80lb highZ injectors
    Megasquirt2- fuel, spark, idle
    NGK "6" heat range plugs (found to be too hot)
    93 octane sunoco

    We made 15 pulls all told. The numbers I will report are corrected. The raw numbers were about 10/10 higher. We have that cheater NE air.

    The street tune was pretty far off for a few reasons. I had recently switched to 80lb injectors, and done a rough rescale, but it still proved to be pretty rich off the street. I was running 10* of timing as a conservative guess. We switched to a lower boost pulley to creep up on the tune.

    It was really rich. Started down at 220hp off the street, too rich and too retarded.

    After about 5 pulls we got the fuel cleaned up, targeting 11.8 AFR made the best power. Up to about 260hp with still 10 degrees.

    Started creeping up on the timing and eventually ended up with 300hp @ 5100rpm with about 7psi.

    The torque was 340ftlbs at 4100rpm with 6 psi. This was the lowest we could get a good reading. The converter is too loose for a chasis dyno. Combined with the stock cam which probably peaks at 2500rpm, it's impossible to tell how much peak torque it makes. Hopefully a beta tester can shine some light on this. Judging by the slope of the curve and an older dyno sheet I have for this motor with just exhaust, it is making around 100ftlbs more torque everywhere.

    We learned a lot on saturday. The airfilter I was using was too small. A larger one will be included in the kit.

    The kit flows really well. It easily outflows the stock motor. With the KB setup, boost would fall with rpm, indicating the supercharger kit wasn't keeping up. With the ZCP kit, boost stacks with RPM. The KB "6psi" pulley was making over 13psi at 5500rpm. So more than double the boost, and lower IATs.

    The NGK 6 heat range is too hot. This is what ended our day. There should be more room to increase timing with a colder plug. We never heard or saw any evidence of detonation, but the plug was showing a lot of heat.

    IATs were surprisingly good for an non-intercooled blower setup. The IAT sensor is brass and threaded into the lower intake manifold. At idle it sits at 110F. Reading a combination of heatsoak and air temp. During a pull this rises to 150F reported, while the motor was slowing back down, the IAT continues to rise to 180F. Max temp rise seems to be about 10F per psi.

    My timing map was not binned properly before arriving at the dyno. We were only editing a few cells in boost at high rpm. Next time I will re-bin it so we can get more resolution and see what sort of curve it likes.

    I located an old dyno sheet that would make an apples to apples comparison. It was from when my truck just had CAI and exhaust.
    200hp/318ftlbs at 3300rpm
    218hp/270ftlbs at 4100rpm
    190hp/195ftlbs at 5100rpm

    Compare to ZCP supercharger and exhaust
    265hp/340ftlbs at 4100rpm with 6psi
    300hp/305ftlbs at 5100rpm with 7psi

    I think with a colder plug and a bit more work on the timing curve there is more left in this pulley. I think it is a good representation on what to expect with a stock motor and low boost on pump gas with a tune that can live on the street. It is a shame we can't see a real peak torque number with this drivetrain setup. The mechanical design of the supercharger kit seems to be performing extremely well. A higher flowing motor, water/meth or race gas could all easily make large increases from this baseline. The supercharger kit has no problem making big boost numbers with even modest pulley sizes and compressor speeds, with good efficiency and reasonable IATs.

    Thanks goes out to DP Dyno Inc, Lee, VideoSmith, Tyler Wright, Dave and Amanda Melchiore.
    Last edited by Five9Dak; 11-11-2013 at 01:49 PM.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  2. #2


    Blown and Squirted

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    Oh, and it makes good noises.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  3. #3


    Blown and Squirted

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    I think the most impressive point is that it picked up 110/110 at 5100rpms with just 7psi. This is a 57% gain with half an atmosphere of boost.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  4. #4



    RTchas's Avatar
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    Nice Work Chris!

    Any Video of these "noises"


    00 FR RC Dakota R/T Turbo 11.56@118

    99 Amethyst RC Dakota R/T 1-170 13.84@98

    P.I.E. tuned cause Flynn is for the Birds if you wanna Run Fast have some PIE !

    Just call me George W

  5. #5

    Friggin' R/T's Avatar
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    How do I sign up to be your next test truck hahahaha
    Last edited by Five9Dak; 11-11-2013 at 03:01 PM.

    2002 Flame Red RC R/T
    272 RWHP 315 ft/lb TQ
    218/226 Comp Cam, Stage 1 Ported EQ Heads, PRW 1.6 Roller Rockers, PIE Custom Tune, Full spintech exhaust with 3" side exit, 52mm Holley, Ported Kegger, Viper E-Fan, Powerdemon Trans, Hotchkis Springs, Leafs and Sway Bars, R/T 20's, Gen 3 viper seats, Custom "Rejected" State Inspection Sticker
    Plenty More to come

  6. #6


    Blown and Squirted

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTchas View Post
    Nice Work Chris!

    Any Video of these "noises"
    There will be yes. We have like 4 hours of video footage all told getting paired down into one promo video. ETA on that is unknown, I have to talk to the producer now that we have all the footage done.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  7. #7

    BryanRT360's Avatar
    Dirty Jerzey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friggin' R/T View Post
    How do I sign up to be your next test truck hahahaha
    Got 3k laying around
    2002 AB CC R/T (R.I.P)
    11.52@116.61 w/1.67 60'.

    2002 AB QC 4.7 4x4


    www.schroermasonry.com
    Facebook.com/SchroerMasonry

  8. #8


    Blown and Squirted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friggin' R/T View Post
    How do I sign up to be your next test truck hahahaha
    Producing the beta kit is the next order of business. When it is ready to ship, I will solicit testers.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  9. #9

    BryanRT360's Avatar
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    Nice work Chris, I can't wait to see this in person
    2002 AB CC R/T (R.I.P)
    11.52@116.61 w/1.67 60'.

    2002 AB QC 4.7 4x4


    www.schroermasonry.com
    Facebook.com/SchroerMasonry

  10. #10


    Blown and Squirted

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRT360 View Post
    Nice work Chris, I can't wait to see this in person
    Thanks Bryan.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  11. #11

    Friggin' R/T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    Producing the beta kit is the next order of business. When it is ready to ship, I will solicit testers.
    Sweet! Put me on the top of the list!

    2002 Flame Red RC R/T
    272 RWHP 315 ft/lb TQ
    218/226 Comp Cam, Stage 1 Ported EQ Heads, PRW 1.6 Roller Rockers, PIE Custom Tune, Full spintech exhaust with 3" side exit, 52mm Holley, Ported Kegger, Viper E-Fan, Powerdemon Trans, Hotchkis Springs, Leafs and Sway Bars, R/T 20's, Gen 3 viper seats, Custom "Rejected" State Inspection Sticker
    Plenty More to come

  12. #12


    Blown and Squirted

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    I should also note, the production kits will likely ship with 2x70mm throttle bodies. This test was done with a 2x65. I haven't seen a restriction with the 2x65, highest boost I've seen is 13.3 at 5500 rpm. The 2x70 is a commercially available aftermarket unit. The 2x65 is OEM SRT-10. Customers can delete the 2x70 and procure their own TB to save money if they desire. I got my 2x65 for $125 used.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  13. #13


    Blown and Squirted

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKDAK View Post
    I am assuming that the first dyno test was with a 46RE in the truck and the one yesterday was done with the 727 in the truck.
    Sounds like a real nice kit.
    That is correct. So there is an inertia difference between the two. With the ramp rate on the dyno in third gear, I'm not sure it makes much difference at all. There is also slightly less friction, but the 727 running constant line pressure sucks more with the pump. I think the inertia of the dyno drum dominates these changes.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  14. #14


    Blown and Squirted

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    I was reviewing the log and looking at boost on the hit, boost tracks TP exactly. AS SOON as the TPS shows 100%, it is at full boost. There is ZERO discernible lag. I was stomping the pedal hard. ~200-300msec. And it built boost just as fast. Log resolution was 0.050 seconds per sample. So at most, the lag is 50ms, but likely less.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  15. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    Producing the beta kit is the next order of business. When it is ready to ship, I will solicit testers.
    *raises hand*

    Andrew
    1999 IB RC R/T
    TKO600

  16. #16


    Blown and Squirted

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    Andrew would be able to start the pulls down lower... lol. What is that clutch rated for?

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  17. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    Andrew would be able to start the pulls down lower... lol. What is that clutch rated for?
    In an old email I was told 500 @ the crank. I don't remember Sean's exact numbers on the juice, but we were both pleasantly surprised how everything looked when I took it apart. I put in a brand new flywheel/disc/pressure plate, so it should be ready for some more abuse.
    Andrew
    1999 IB RC R/T
    TKO600

  18. #18



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    Quote Originally Posted by sunike32 View Post
    In an old email I was told 500 @ the crank. I don't remember Sean's exact numbers on the juice, but we were both pleasantly surprised how everything looked when I took it apart. I put in a brand new flywheel/disc/pressure plate, so it should be ready for some more abuse.
    StickHoldPower

    Talk to J.T. how it will do in the 1/4


    00 FR RC Dakota R/T Turbo 11.56@118

    99 Amethyst RC Dakota R/T 1-170 13.84@98

    P.I.E. tuned cause Flynn is for the Birds if you wanna Run Fast have some PIE !

    Just call me George W

  19. #19


    Blown and Squirted

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    Supra R/T #2.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  20. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by RTchas View Post
    StickHoldPower

    Talk to J.T. how it will do in the 1/4
    Clearly you forgot I don't race my truck very often
    Andrew
    1999 IB RC R/T
    TKO600

  21. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewd Crude and Tattooed View Post
    I have a spare block here we can change it over onto after Drew's truck blows up.
    LOL thanks for the positive thoughts
    Andrew
    1999 IB RC R/T
    TKO600

  22. #22



    RTchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunike32 View Post
    Clearly you forgot I don't race my truck very often
    Meow....


    00 FR RC Dakota R/T Turbo 11.56@118

    99 Amethyst RC Dakota R/T 1-170 13.84@98

    P.I.E. tuned cause Flynn is for the Birds if you wanna Run Fast have some PIE !

    Just call me George W

  23. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by RTchas View Post
    Meow....
    Hey, is that a cat out in the field??
    Andrew
    1999 IB RC R/T
    TKO600

  24. #24

    Duner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunike32 View Post
    Hey, is that a cat out in the field??
    Like this New Jersey attack cat?

    http://www.godvine.com/Hilarious-Kit...b-gv-4220.html

    Meow...
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
    5.9 Turbocharged RC in black - 10's

    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

  25. #25

    ironsport1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunike32 View Post
    In an old email I was told 500 @ the crank. I don't remember Sean's exact numbers on the juice, but we were both pleasantly surprised how everything looked when I took it apart. I put in a brand new flywheel/disc/pressure plate, so it should be ready for some more abuse.
    Still waiting on an E.T. slip from Andrew

    BLACK '02 RC R/T (BLACK N BITTER) 12.5 @ 109 mph
    '99 IB RC R/T (Sabrina's truck) 13.8 @ 96 mph SOLD!
    '10 B5 blue pearl Challenger R/T Classic edition.
    '05 WRANGLER (DD)
    '05 HARLEY FXDCI

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