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    Default For the guys who have autocrossed...

    have you ever "rolled" the tire to the point of tearing up your rims?

    I posted on a local SCCA forum and expressed an interest in coming out. One of the replies suggested I buy a set of cheap steel wheels for autocrossing so I don't tear up my nice rims. well, as we all know, rim selection on Dakota's suck, especially when you put Viper brakes on all 4 corners. the guy who made the suggestion sent me a link to nascar style steel rims, which ARE cheap, but only available in 15" wheel sizes

    Not looking to be a serious contender in autocross, just go out and have fun a few times a year, and give my truck all it's got.

    Do I need to worry about rolling my tires over and gouging up the rims? or is that not even possible without blowing the beads off? why would the "experienced" guy tell me that I might tear up my rims?
    --Tom
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    Trueblue R/T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Filbert View Post
    have you ever "rolled" the tire to the point of tearing up your rims?

    I posted on a local SCCA forum and expressed an interest in coming out. One of the replies suggested I buy a set of cheap steel wheels for autocrossing so I don't tear up my nice rims. well, as we all know, rim selection on Dakota's suck, especially when you put Viper brakes on all 4 corners. the guy who made the suggestion sent me a link to nascar style steel rims, which ARE cheap, but only available in 15" wheel sizes

    Not looking to be a serious contender in autocross, just go out and have fun a few times a year, and give my truck all it's got.

    Do I need to worry about rolling my tires over and gouging up the rims? or is that not even possible without blowing the beads off? why would the "experienced" guy tell me that I might tear up my rims?
    I have never has that problem however I do run higher air pressure.



    Trueblue R/T Drtc#204
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    6speedrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Filbert View Post
    have you ever "rolled" the tire to the point of tearing up your rims?

    I posted on a local SCCA forum and expressed an interest in coming out. One of the replies suggested I buy a set of cheap steel wheels for autocrossing so I don't tear up my nice rims. well, as we all know, rim selection on Dakota's suck, especially when you put Viper brakes on all 4 corners. the guy who made the suggestion sent me a link to nascar style steel rims, which ARE cheap, but only available in 15" wheel sizes

    Not looking to be a serious contender in autocross, just go out and have fun a few times a year, and give my truck all it's got.

    Do I need to worry about rolling my tires over and gouging up the rims? or is that not even possible without blowing the beads off? why would the "experienced" guy tell me that I might tear up my rims?
    No you will not tear up your rims, just keep air in the tires and you are fine. The only time I even noticed wear towards the outer part of the tire is when I ran stock pressures (still on the tread though, not sidewalls). Dont hit cement curbs though

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    Blown and Squirted

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    If you run a tire not rated for the load on the front of a dakota with decent suspension, it will roll over a lot, even with increased pressure.

    Make sure the tires are rated for the weight, run high pressure, mark the tires with chalk to tailor the pressure to keep the wear where it belongs.

    If you've never autocrossed, walk the track a LOT, and focus on staying on course to start with.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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    Take a tire chalk with you and put a thick line from your sidewall to the tread to see where you are scrubbing up to. Add air till you aren't rolling the tire.

    2006 Black Charger SRT8- Cam'ed and tons of suspenson/drivetrain mods for Autocross/Road racing
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    Thanks for the tips! yea, when the guy gave me that suggestion, My reaction was "great, I just spent $3 grand on these bling rims, I'm not spending more big money on rims that clear my viper brakes, just to tear them up autocrossing"

    I'm running the Hankook Ventus V12 tires. 285/35/19

    When you guys say "higher air pressures" do you mean you run the max on the sidewall (typically 44psi cold) or do you go higher than that just while at the event, then deflate back to normal for the drive home?

    Thanks for the tip on chalking the tires. Maybe I'll chalk them up and then take a cloverleaf as hard as I dare (get up to the edge where the tires start talkin' to me without actually losing grip) then see what it looks like. Cloverleafs are the closest thing to a legal skid pad around
    --Tom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Filbert View Post
    Thanks for the tips! yea, when the guy gave me that suggestion, My reaction was "great, I just spent $3 grand on these bling rims, I'm not spending more big money on rims that clear my viper brakes, just to tear them up autocrossing"

    I'm running the Hankook Ventus V12 tires. 285/35/19

    When you guys say "higher air pressures" do you mean you run the max on the sidewall (typically 44psi cold) or do you go higher than that just while at the event, then deflate back to normal for the drive home?

    Thanks for the tip on chalking the tires. Maybe I'll chalk them up and then take a cloverleaf as hard as I dare (get up to the edge where the tires start talkin' to me without actually losing grip) then see what it looks like. Cloverleafs are the closest thing to a legal skid pad around
    Yup, just max on the sidewall and let the air out before you go home. You can also just look at the scuff marks on the tires if you don't have chalk.

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    I would put a swash of white shoe polish at 3 places on the outer of my tires(like at 12, 4 and 8 o'clock), and you could gauge roll-over from it.

    I was told, back in the day, that the tip of the triangle on the side wall was a good measurement of maximum tire rool over. The triangle in this picture below is that marker, but I can be corrected as it's been a while.



    Over-inflate the tires before you get to the track and let some out at where you will be driving as needed, or bring an air tank with you.

    I completely agree with walking the course as many times as you can learning where to go, and where you've been. I really miss autocrossing. It taught me how wide my vehicle was, and how to be smooth in the corners, on the gas, and braking.
    DRTC #1176

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    My hooptie's setup is going to make me look very foolish while trying to autocross it. I'll probably get the slowest time except for maybe somebody who stalls on the course. I'm going to do my best to keep all of the cones in place.
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
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    I should have monoleafs by then, so I'm just sunday driving for my gas card. haha.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    I should have monoleafs by then, so I'm just sunday driving for my gas card. haha.
    Between my monoleafs, caltracs and shock setup - and no sway bars - it handles like a pig. It does OK with both bars on it though - if I put the 17's back on it anyway.
    Duner
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    I was right about the triangles on the side wall:

    http://racingready.com/2010/05/27/ti...s-tuning-tips/
    DRTC #1176

    2000 Bright White CC (1/553)
    Dyno'ed 07/05/13 (126,000 Miles) 230 Hp / 308 Tq
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    I really don't think tire roll will be much of an issue, especially if the parking lot is relatively flat.

    To give you some idea of what to expect, here's a video me on the course at the '04 DRTC Nats.

    Alan Short
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapejuice1998 View Post
    I really don't think tire roll will be much of an issue, especially if the parking lot is relatively flat.

    To give you some idea of what to expect, here's a video me on the course at the '04 DRTC Nats.

    Damn good looking and sounding truck!

    Driver wasn't too shabbby either!
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Damn good looking and sounding truck!

    Driver wasn't too shabbby either!
    Thanks Duner!

    That was the first of 3 clean passes, which ended with me winning the modified RC class. I like to autocross as much as I like to drag race, I just have fewer opportunities to autocross.
    Alan Short
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapejuice1998 View Post
    Thanks Duner!

    That was the first of 3 clean passes, which ended with me winning the modified RC class. I like to autocross as much as I like to drag race, I just have fewer opportunities to autocross.
    Way Cool!

    I've never done it, but I'm fairly certain I will be known as a "cone killer" when I ever try. Throttle modulation? What's that? I only know "ON" or "OFF" with the loud pedal. I'm also unsure about turning the steering wheel both directions during a single event. We won't even talk about using that brake pedal. They better clear the area before they let me out there!
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
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    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

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    A google pic of out autox parking lot,lower left corner



    You will have lots of room to slide around



    Trueblue R/T Drtc#204
    Lowest CC Houston
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    slow but who cares

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Way Cool!

    I've never done it, but I'm fairly certain I will be known as a "cone killer" when I ever try. Throttle modulation? What's that? I only know "ON" or "OFF" with the loud pedal. I'm also unsure about turning the steering wheel both directions during a single event. We won't even talk about using that brake pedal. They better clear the area before they let me out there!
    Too funny!
    Alan Short
    D.R.T.C. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueblue R/T View Post
    A google pic of out autox parking lot,lower left corner



    You will have lots of room to slide around
    Should we add a new event to the Nats?

    Drifting?
    Alan Short
    D.R.T.C. #15


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    Trueblue R/T Drtc#204
    Lowest CC Houston
    2nd lowest Topeka
    slow but who cares

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    Call russ or clint, they are pro drifters!!!

    My R/T build (rebuild) thread

    http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/...d.php?t=133167
    Quote Originally Posted by 70Cuda383 View Post
    It's an emissions thing. someone, somewhere said that the millions of gallons of gas that evaporate to the atmosphere every year was killing tree frogs on some south african isalnd or some shit, those endangered tree frogs can suck my left nut.

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    Jontoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingst3r View Post
    Call russ or clint, they are pro drifters!!!
    which reminds me i took some cell phone video's of Clint's truck running at the CAMM track day at Byron back in October. i did forget to share those...

    i didn't talk to him, he was running with no times on the boards.

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    I had this problem in the front of my Auto-X car (Tho not even close to the wheels, just ate up the outside edge of the tire real bad). The problem finally went away with about -3* Camber =). Have always wanted to try Auto-X'ing my R/T, but 20'' tires are expensive. =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOspazz92 View Post
    I had this problem in the front of my Auto-X car (Tho not even close to the wheels, just ate up the outside edge of the tire real bad). The problem finally went away with about -3* Camber =). Have always wanted to try Auto-X'ing my R/T, but 20'' tires are expensive. =)
    If you drive right, you really don't burn up tires that bad at all. I got 26,000 out of my RSA's and I autoXd on them all the time back in the day. Just refrain from trying to drift every corner and lighting the tires up when you spin.

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    Hankooks should have a stiff enough sidewall that will keep the wheel off the tarmac. As others have said, you'll want to run more air pressure in your tires. Since you're probably camber limited, you'll need even more to keep the tire contact patch flatter in the corners. I believe we were running about 45# in our stock RSA's on the front of our 98, and probably about 35# in the rear. It's been many, many years since I've run the Dak, so I don't remember. We quickly moved on to a dedicated autocross car, a F-Stock Rustang SVO. It, too was 'camber-limited', since it was in a stock class, which required upwards of 55# of air in the front tires to keep the front end planted.

    Don't be afraid of air pressure. As others have said, use the triangles, if your tires are equipped with them, or some chalk or tire crayon marks to see where the wear is. Don't stripe the tire from the rim to the tread, that spells 'n-o-o-b-i-e'. You just need a touch at the edge of the tread to see where the wear is.

    The Dakota is a very capable autocross vehicle. It was fun to show up at an event in our truck and see just how many Camaros and Mustangs we could beat. My wife shamed many ESP-class Mustangs in our 98 R/T in her first year of autocrossing. We were classed in ESP because of the headers we had on the truck. No other mods. It was fun, but she got tired of the rock chips in an otherwise pristine truck with just a few hundred miles on the clock, so we went looking for something we wouldn't be afraid of chipping up.

    Good luck, and have fun. That's the point!
    Gene Beaird,
    98 FR CC R/T
    Pearland, Texas

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