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Thread: MS3 Discussion

  1. #26


    Blown and Squirted

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapejuice1998 View Post
    Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?
    No some sensors are in one connector and some outputs are in another. You don't need all three intercepted, but you need two. If you wanted to add some features that depended on vehichle speed, like boost, timing, traction control, transmission air-shifting- then you would need all three.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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  2. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?
    Yes it will require some work on your part though. I verified it is possible to spoof the injectors, the ignition produces the same soft code as the an MSD box. All the sensor sharing is transparent to JTEC. Figuring out any IAC related codes is the only unknown. If you have a cam that shows misfers on your current JTEC tune, that obviously can't be worked around. Although, you might get the motor to idle better on MS, and reduce or eliminate the misfire count.

    For the map sensor I just use a bleed through a check valve.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?
    It is easy enough to swap back to 100% PCM operation to be emissions compliant...
    My step mother legitimately thought you could raise boneless chickens.

    edit: she once to her taxes to a taxidermy shop...my hand to god, this woman is a moron

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    cw25's Avatar
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    Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.
    1998 CC PR4, bell tech 2/4 drop, 400 BB, MSII EFI, S475 turbo, hyd roller cam, Ported stock heads...

  5. #30

    Duner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cw25 View Post
    Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.
    That would get around the emissions thing.
    Duner
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  6. #31

    Needs more boost

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    Quote Originally Posted by cw25 View Post
    Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.
    Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?
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  7. #32


    Blown and Squirted

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    Just let the MS control the fuel injectors and use resistors to trick JTEC if you dont want those codes. I've verified this works already. Ran fuel/spark on MS (not idle yet) without a CEL.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    Just let the MS control the fuel injectors and use resistors to trick JTEC if you dont want those codes. I've verified this works already. Ran fuel/spark on MS (not idle yet) without a CEL.
    im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?

  9. #34
    Hahns5.2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01dodgedakota View Post
    im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?
    Yes, I plugged my stock injectors in for a while, I got tired of having 16 injectors clacking away so I took them out and live with the CEL, I'm OBD1 so passing emissions isn't a problem.
    5.2, 5 Speed, MS3X (Full Sequential, Spark, Idle, Boost Control, Fan, Water/Meth), HX40 Pro/P-Trim Hybrid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01dodgedakota View Post
    im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?

    I use my factory engine harness for MS2. I haven't modified it at all.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
    I use my factory engine harness for MS2. I haven't modified it at all.
    oh i thought ms had its own harness you used with it

  12. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by PacManRT View Post
    Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?
    NO!! That was a Gen3 Hemi issue.

    That intake was never designed to flow an Air-Fuel Mixture. Therefore the Fuel would separate from the air in the intake and puddle. What little that did make it was unevenly distributed.

    The Magnum didn't have that issue even withe Kegger Intake which wasn't a Good design at all.
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PacManRT View Post
    Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?
    Sorry I missed this post.

    No it won't as dakfink pointed out it is the intake design that causes that. The M1 is a carburated intake that was converted to EFI by adding injector bungs, no issue there. Wouldn't trust much boost to the stock kegger intake even with the renforced belly pan.
    1998 CC PR4, bell tech 2/4 drop, 400 BB, MSII EFI, S475 turbo, hyd roller cam, Ported stock heads...

  14. #39
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    Digging this back up...


    Spent the weekend tearing out my old MS2 (fuel/idle only) and it's "proof of concept" wiring rat's next and installed MS3X, full sequential, ignition and idle control (fan too). Started about 6pm on Sat and fired it up the first try around 2pm on Sun, I also avoid using crimps and solder everything I can. I then went and put about 40 miles on it letting autotune do it's thing. Then I went out this morning and drove it to work. Granted I had a pretty good baseline from my old MS2 tune to work off of. Most of us would be willing to share our tunes with anyone else anyways.
    5.2, 5 Speed, MS3X (Full Sequential, Spark, Idle, Boost Control, Fan, Water/Meth), HX40 Pro/P-Trim Hybrid.

  15. #40
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    The MS3X Hemi Daytona Bonneville car hit a top speed of 283mph at speedweek and set a record. They started slow and worked on the tune over a few runs. On the last day it dropped a cylinder and still ran 277mph. The goal was 300mph and I'm sure they'll hit it next year. The said the compression test was good so it's probably just a coil or plug problem.
    Last edited by Hahns5.2; 08-19-2012 at 06:32 AM.
    5.2, 5 Speed, MS3X (Full Sequential, Spark, Idle, Boost Control, Fan, Water/Meth), HX40 Pro/P-Trim Hybrid.

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    Sup guys, I'm finally in a place, where I'm testing my MS3. I'm curious to know if any of you have had trouble with Sequential injections and ignition control via MS3. I've had a few issues with my bench testing, but I think I've got them worked out. Lastly when wiring up the MS3 to the stock harness, did any of you guys use your stock harness completely or did you have to integrate it to the MS3 wiring.
    02 QuadCab 3.9 (5spd conversion in progress one day Powerdyne S/C and MS3 tuned)
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  17. #42


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    My MS2 parallel installation uses a completely stock harness, with an AEM viper patch harness. There are some modifications that can be done to the stock harness to reduce noise in a parallel installation, but I haven't made them yet.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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    I haven't installed my MS3 yet, but I'm getting closer. I think I'm going to use the extra stock harness I have, and just solder in the connectors to the MS3 wiring. Any thoughts on that approach?
    02 QuadCab 3.9 (5spd conversion in progress one day Powerdyne S/C and MS3 tuned)
    91 Excab 390 stroker, One day completed
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  19. #44


    Blown and Squirted

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    That could work, but keep in mind the normal MS3 enclosure is not intended to be installed under hood.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

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    I was actually considering installing it in my Glove box, or under the Cowl of my Dakota. There is quite a bit of room under the Cowl and all fo the wiring should reach when I need it to. I appreciate your sugguestions and insight. I'm so ready to get this truck back on the road and driving.
    02 QuadCab 3.9 (5spd conversion in progress one day Powerdyne S/C and MS3 tuned)
    91 Excab 390 stroker, One day completed
    2011 Durango Tow pig
    63 Dart One day completed
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  21. #46

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    This is something I need to get installed on my truck before next year....have to smog every other year, and it barely failed/passed last year. (passed first run, but dickhead failed me on visual...ran back through 3 other times after that and they all failed except for the last time and he ran the old-school test and cheated it to get it to pass). Figure with this, I could tune it to pass and not have to worry about it...lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KicknAsphlt View Post
    This is something I need to get installed on my truck before next year....have to smog every other year, and it barely failed/passed last year. (passed first run, but dickhead failed me on visual...ran back through 3 other times after that and they all failed except for the last time and he ran the old-school test and cheated it to get it to pass). Figure with this, I could tune it to pass and not have to worry about it...lol.
    If they plug in you will fail miserably! Ms ftw!
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    I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?
    - Justin


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    Quote Originally Posted by KicknAsphlt View Post
    I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?
    No

    Ms runs the engine, jtec runs the transmission. Jtec is always pissed off (cel) that jtec doesn't see the injectors and various other things. I think I have over 10 codes at any given time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KicknAsphlt View Post
    I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?
    Hopefully you haven't spent the $1000+ yet!
    My step mother legitimately thought you could raise boneless chickens.

    edit: she once to her taxes to a taxidermy shop...my hand to god, this woman is a moron

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