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Thread: MS3 Discussion

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    White Turbo's Avatar
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    Default MS3 Discussion

    Post up your knowledge, questions, and insight about Megasquirt here.

    MS site links, forum links, discussion links, technical info, etc....


    Let's keep it on topic please.
    Last edited by White Turbo; 06-14-2012 at 09:29 PM.

    Ed Morris
    11.17 @ 120.91 mph
    Best 60': 1.54

    DRTC # 578

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    Sick 660r's Avatar
    gen III traitor

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    Here are some links

    Very good book to get you started
    http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Fu.../dp/1557885575

    A link to the MS forums and documentation
    http://msextra.com/

    Where I would suggest purchasing from. You may want to wait till the holidays because they usually have sales.
    http://www.diyautotune.com/

    AEM no longer makes the patch harness for us but if you find one I would suggest snatching it up because it will make the install much easier and will allow you to install MS without cutting any stock wires. You could also make the switch back to JTEC to pass emissions.

    I will get this out of the way now...

    your fuel sync must be set to zero!!!
    Last edited by Sick 660r; 06-12-2012 at 02:46 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by BluRT00 View Post
    Part your red sport out and buy a gen 2. Problem solved.

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    Blown and Squirted

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    Patch number for the (discontinued) AEM patch harness is 30-2984. A similar patch harness could easily be constructed from a junkyard engine harness and JTEC of any flavor.

    It is important to note that users who want to retain the JTEC for transmission or other body functionality will be doing a "parallel" install. This has some differences from the standard documentation that are addressed in the document some of us have been working on.

    NOTE: work in progress. If you have information to contribute, let me know and I will get you editing rights.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...B0H5Mltcs/edit

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

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    White Turbo's Avatar
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    Copied this from Hahns5.2 in the other thread.

    An interesting conversation about MS3 from Bangshift.com

    http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...980#post627980

    Ed Morris
    11.17 @ 120.91 mph
    Best 60': 1.54

    DRTC # 578

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    Pumpkin Truck Driver

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    Is it safe to say someone has tried ordering the AEM patch harness from every retailer on Google Shop that returns a hit for the part number? Talked to ShopHemi today and they of course can't get it from AEM, and Justin said he's had a lot of interest in it recently. There's another 10+ sites all claiming to have it, but if it lists the AEM SKU# I'm pretty much assuming it is supposed to drop ship from AEM which isn't possible. Any leads would be great if they do exist out there.
    -John

    old car, old Jeeps, old truck, new F30

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    Blown and Squirted

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    They come up used on viper forums. If enough people ping AEM they might start making them again. Unless the connector supplier discontinued the JTEC connector.....

    Justin is attempting to make one from junkyard engine harness and a broken JTEC. It will require a lot of desoldering labor.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

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    Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?
    Alan Short
    D.R.T.C. #15


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    One thing I did find that I liked very much is that YOU can build a Test Simulator to make sure your Systems are working as required before calling them good. Or for trouble shooting purposes.

    That goes for the MSquirt and the MShift as well.

    They also Integrate together via CAN-bus.

    I am looking into the MShift. It should be doable. The Trans-Controller that ATS sells is the one that PCS sells for the Chevy 4l60/80E transmissions.

    Only 2 questions I have is what are the differences Electrically between the 47re and the 46re. "NONE That I know of." And 2 what did they mod about the ValveBody? You have to use one of their specific ValveBodies with the TransController.
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

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    Found the 47re shifting thread BUT it has not been updated since Sept-2011.

    Sounds like the guy was on a good track. He was operating most basic functions with just the MS3x

    http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtop...&t=25&start=10
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

  10. #10

    Duner's Avatar
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    Does anybody feel like sending me their MS3 tune to take a look at?

    I just loaded up TunerStudio....
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
    5.9 Turbocharged RC in black - 10's

    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapejuice1998 View Post
    Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?
    No.
    My step mother legitimately thought you could raise boneless chickens.

    edit: she once to her taxes to a taxidermy shop...my hand to god, this woman is a moron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Does anybody feel like sending me their MS3 tune to take a look at?

    I just loaded up TunerStudio....
    LOL!!! Does this look cheap enough and out of the Norm for you to actually be Considering it????

    Get the trans control sorted and we might have what we have been looking for, for a long time.

    I may be going this route just for shits-n-grins. It's something I can order and do while I am deployed. Order, assemble and test the Kit while I am overseas.
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

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    The PCM can control the trans. If you aren't using the PCM, why are you still trying to use the 46re?
    My step mother legitimately thought you could raise boneless chickens.

    edit: she once to her taxes to a taxidermy shop...my hand to god, this woman is a moron

  14. #14

    Duner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakfink View Post
    LOL!!! Does this look cheap enough and out of the Norm for you to actually be Considering it????

    Get the trans control sorted and we might have what we have been looking for, for a long time.

    I may be going this route just for shits-n-grins. It's something I can order and do while I am deployed. Order, assemble and test the Kit while I am overseas.
    After playing with the SCT tables for a little bit..... everything in TunerStudio looks way easier to wrap my head around.
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
    5.9 Turbocharged RC in black - 10's

    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

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    If it were me converting my R/T to MS I would take the more headache free option of a manual valve body for the transmission. Just shift it your self. No computer needed. http://www.apsprecision.com/ValveBody.html#manualshift
    1998 CC PR4, bell tech 2/4 drop, 400 BB, MSII EFI, S475 turbo, hyd roller cam, Ported stock heads...

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    Hahns5.2's Avatar
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    Everything I've read about the SCT PRP is that it isn't user/newb friendly at all.

    When I went with MS, I had never tuned anything before, ever. I just read and read and read some more, till I had a good idea of what I was doing. And I think my tune is pretty damn good. I think it would be perfect if I knew my actual injector dead time. You also have the option of taking logs, auto-tuning them "offline", then burn the new tune. I usually do this instead of auto tuning live. Acceleration enrichment is the hardest part to get right, and if the hardware isn't up to snuff, you'll never get it right. I had to correct a ground issue with the stock TPS wiring to get rid of the noise so I could get the threshold low enough for perfect AE. If there's electrical noise in the TPS, you will get false AE triggers with a low threshold, and a high threshold is unresponsive.
    5.2, 5 Speed, MS3X (Full Sequential, Spark, Idle, Boost Control, Fan, Water/Meth), HX40 Pro/P-Trim Hybrid.

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    cw25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    After playing with the SCT tables for a little bit..... everything in TunerStudio looks way easier to wrap my head around.
    The only bad thing is you have to configure the base tune yourself. BUT you can configure it to do really anything you want. Don't worry about not having enouph resolution like there has been talk of. I only have 3 lines of VE lines for boost and have no problems keeping a very nice A/F. Probably the trickiest thing was getting a near perfect cold start and warmup. That is being pretty picky. For yous in the warmer areas of the continent it isn't as much of a issue.
    1998 CC PR4, bell tech 2/4 drop, 400 BB, MSII EFI, S475 turbo, hyd roller cam, Ported stock heads...

  18. #18

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by cw25 View Post
    If it were me converting my R/T to MS I would take the more headache free option of a manual valve body for the transmission. Just shift it your self. No computer needed. http://www.apsprecision.com/ValveBody.html#manualshift
    I would agree about the manual VB, but I've heard to stay away from APS. MSaine can also do a manual VB and he has a much better reputation.

    I have considered using a manual VB with a paddle-shift kit to control it, paddle shifting would be fun. You could use the same solenoid box that the paddle shift kit uses and control it with a simple output from the MS3 to shift at the exact rpm you want. It would be worthless for part throttle driving, but you would have perfect consistency for racing, very similar setup to an air shifter.

    For a driver, I would stick to the manual VB with a floor shifter or paddle shifter.

    Drops panties faster than any R/T

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    cw25's Avatar
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    I actually did that but using a double acting pnumatic cylinder. Then I had upshift and downshift capabilities. The only problem I had was that I could not find a easy way to run the wires from the steering wheel on my old 79'. I may try it again on the dak but use the clockspring as I will be abondoning alot of the wiring in this truck. Having the MS upshift at full RPM really works well in as it makes the same shift every time no matter what.
    1998 CC PR4, bell tech 2/4 drop, 400 BB, MSII EFI, S475 turbo, hyd roller cam, Ported stock heads...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k1AmberR/T View Post
    The PCM can control the trans. If you aren't using the PCM, why are you still trying to use the 46re?

    I want an Auto with O/D, what other trans you recommend?
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakfink View Post
    I want an Auto with O/D, what other trans you recommend?
    Like five9dak, you can leave the JTEC in place to control the 46re while the MS controls the engine. You could also swap to a 46/47/48rh or a 518 trans, still a 727 based OD tranny but it's hydraulically controlled. Hook up a kick-down cable and you're done.

    Drops panties faster than any R/T

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    Duner's Avatar
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    Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?
    Duner
    4.7 Turbocharged CC in white - 12's
    5.9 Turbocharged RC in black - 10's

    1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC Turbo: 10.51 @ 130.13 MPH

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?
    dont think so, but from what i've seen it would take no time at all to remove it long enough to pass emissions and then reinstall it

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyotech_cuda440 View Post
    Like five9dak, you can leave the JTEC in place to control the 46re while the MS controls the engine. You could also swap to a 46/47/48rh or a 518 trans, still a 727 based OD tranny but it's hydraulically controlled. Hook up a kick-down cable and you're done.
    And maintain all the issues that have been the plague of that transmission. Poor Transmission control and shifting from the PCM's programming and Lack of line pressure for holding power of the clutches.

    The 46rh isn't much better, it has it's fare share of the same issues.

    I believe a well built 46re (Martin Saine) controlled by a programmable controller will do very well.

    As we have all stated the 46re is nothing but a 727 ( a well proven trans) with an OD and some electronics. So the core is a GOOD Trans. The electronics just need to be addressed. Which MegaSquirt can do in the form of MegaShift add-on.

    OH and one more thing. The more I keep in place (original) the less the headaches and custom / fab work.
    Last edited by dakfink; 06-15-2012 at 06:55 AM.
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

  25. #25

    Needs more boost

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duner View Post
    Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?
    Me and chris have been discussing this, it seems like with a few power resistors for the injector circuits and possibly some map sensor trickery, which I'm sure you already have to deal with boost, and you could have a happy enough j tec to pass plug in emissions testing. This will be one of my concerns when I do my ms install.
    --Justin
    ----------------------------------------
    '87 Ramcharger 360 swap and 35s

    '06 300C SRT-8 Diablo 93 oct, 176 t-stat, no cats 12.3@113

    '00 Dakota R/T Prev: 386whp/425tq 11.73@115.8 NOW: Under the knife

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