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Thread: Shop messed up the R/T. Now what?!

  1. #51
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    After many beers and head scratching we figured out the windows are 23* different I think it was. If you hold the dizzys side by side you can see the windows are exactly that far off. +22 made a of lot sense after that. It was a V8 cap on a V6 dizzy.
    03 CC 4.7 NV3500

  2. #52


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    Perhaps the v8 angle would have made the falling edge too close to a crank trigger. I expect they have 6 holes in their flywheel, instead of 8?

    They are probably 22.5* different, half of 45. Just a guess though. I need to look at my crank/cam wheel diagrams. This might be enough information to recommend tentative MS ignition input settings for the 3.9 if anyone was so inclined.

    I think my tooth #1 offset angle is 325* IE the cam falling edge will be followed by the 325* crank edge in the 720* of crank rotation per cycle.
    Last edited by Five9Dak; 10-27-2011 at 02:32 AM.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
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  3. #53
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    Yep. They use 6 windows.
    03 CC 4.7 NV3500

  4. #54


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    You guys are nuking this problem waaaay to much. Before you have the shop tearing your motor back apart to check cam position, or distributor position, take it for a drive and let it re-learn the idle. He said it wouldn't run below 1000RPMs, which means it ran above 1000RPMs. If the fuel sync was that far off, then it wouldn't even run above 1000RPMs. The PCM just needs to re-learn the IAC position to hold idle. Drive the damn thing, let it re-learn idle, then worry about getting fuel sync checked. As mentioned, if it can't idle on it's own right now, then you won't be able to set fuel sync anyways as it needs to be running to set.


  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    You guys are nuking this problem waaaay to much. Before you have the shop tearing your motor back apart to check cam position, or distributor position, take it for a drive and let it re-learn the idle. He said it wouldn't run below 1000RPMs, which means it ran above 1000RPMs. If the fuel sync was that far off, then it wouldn't even run above 1000RPMs. The PCM just needs to re-learn the IAC position to hold idle. Drive the damn thing, let it re-learn idle, then worry about getting fuel sync checked. As mentioned, if it can't idle on it's own right now, then you won't be able to set fuel sync anyways as it needs to be running to set.
    the shops 25 min from my house. So if i went there grabbed it. Tried driving with 2 feet, it could solve my problem?


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  6. #56


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    Yes it very well could solve your problem. have them hook up a battery charger to make sure the battery is fully charged. Then take it out for a drive. You will have to two foot it to keep it from dying at first. When you start to slow down, let the RPMs drop on their own. When it feels like it's going to die, then get back on the gas a little to keep it from dying. Eventually it should settle down and idle on it's own, but it's going to take a little bit. But when you leave the shop, make sure they know you are only going on a test drive and will be back before accepting it as good.


  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    Yes it very well could solve your problem. have them hook up a battery charger to make sure the battery is fully charged. Then take it out for a drive. You will have to two foot it to keep it from dying at first. When you start to slow down, let the RPMs drop on their own. When it feels like it's going to die, then get back on the gas a little to keep it from dying. Eventually it should settle down and idle on it's own, but it's going to take a little bit. But when you leave the shop, make sure they know you are only going on a test drive and will be back before accepting it as good.
    One thing I've done with a low idle issue in turn on the A/C; it will bump the idle ( IAC? ) and usually will keep them running.
    On the 402 install on Blue, on startup it had the fuel sync at +19 and would still idle, not well but it ran enough to get it reset. As someone else stated, try turning the dist. a bit & see if it improves the idle...... I'd also be curious to see how much vacuum there is.


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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Adams View Post
    One thing I've done with a low idle issue in turn on the A/C; it will bump the idle ( IAC? ) and usually will keep them running.
    On the 402 install on Blue, on startup it had the fuel sync at +19 and would still idle, not well but it ran enough to get it reset. As someone else stated, try turning the dist. a bit & see if it improves the idle...... I'd also be curious to see how much vacuum there is.
    that cam on my 318 was idling at 12" with 40 more cubes, it might idle a tad higher than I had it at. 13? 13.5?

    again, you can speed up the IAC learning with the "Setting the counts" trick

    I had that same problem for awhile, every time I flashed in a new tune, it would drive like crap and occasionally die when coming to a stop. I got tired of fighting the hanging RPM deal that I was getting when coming to a stop, and I ultimately used epoxy and sealed the IAC port, then set my idle with the throttle blades, and haven't had a problem since, with idle OR hanging/high RPM (and yea, I tried the "setting the counts" trick too. helped the computer learn idle faster, but didn't do anything for the hanging/high RPM.
    --Tom
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  9. #59

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    UPDATE: well the shop talked to Chris at p.i.e. . He told them what to do and it still won't run. Im getting the truck the Hell out of there today they are dumbasses. Takin it to my uncles friend who's worked at a mopar dealer for over 30 years. He has a bunch of scanners he can dial in and find the problem.

    Thanks for everything guys,
    Eric

    p.s. I got good life lesson out of this.


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  10. #60

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    Don't pay them in full if you haven't paid them yet. They didn't do the job in full and it's not running
    --Tom
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  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Cuda383 View Post
    Don't pay them in full if you haven't paid them yet. They didn't do the job in full and it's not running
    It sucks cause i already paid.. They called me, i drove 30 min out there. When i got there they were installing my cai, and i paid upfront. They then try starting it and it won't run under 1k . Didn't think to makesure it was running properly...my dads gonna talked my neighbor who's worked is a lawyer, to see if there's any action that can be taken.


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  12. #62

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  13. #63
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    just a guess but wouldnt doubt it if the distributor gear is a tooth off.
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  14. #64

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    Does anyone else think quick compression test would tell if the cam is close enough to run?

    Do a cranking compression test to see whatits making and then narrow down if the cam is in time or if it's in the ignition side of things? (fuel sync, dizzy off a tooth, etc?)
    --Tom
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  15. #65
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    Even if you had a baseline to go off of...

    Would it be the added duration of the cam or just advanced or retarded relative to crank angle?
    The Dakota RT is gone... but not forgotten.

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  16. #66



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    Quote Originally Posted by bfranzel View Post
    just a guess but wouldnt doubt it if the distributor gear is a tooth off.
    Me too. Or the sync is way off, but apparently we're the only ones that think it makes any difference.
    Alan Short
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  17. #67

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    IMO put the motor at TDC and check the rotor position, then adjust the dist so the rotor sits directly on 1. if they are use to puttin in a cam for a carb this will be wrong as they tried to adjust the dist using this method which is wrong. the rotor position should point opposite towards the 1-2nd front intake manifold bolts, positioning the dist so the rotor is directly on 1 at TDC will put it in the ballpark of 0 on fuel sync.

    also do a IAC recount if you have a non stock TB, your tune should hold your idle around 800-900 which the higher then factory idle is to prevent misfire codes
    Last edited by Addicted2Blue00; 10-27-2011 at 06:49 PM.
    Brad
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  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Addicted2Blue00 View Post
    IMO put the motor at TDC and check the rotor position, then adjust the dist so the rotor sits directly on 1. if they are use to puttin in a cam for a carb this will be wrong as they tried to adjust the dist using this method which is wrong. the rotor position should point opposite towards the 1-2nd front intake manifold bolts, positioning the dist so the rotor is directly on 1 at TDC will put it in the ballpark of 0 on fuel sync.

    also do a IAC recount if you have a non stock TB, your tune should hold your idle around 800-900 which the higher then factory idle is to prevent misfire codes
    I can't make sense of what you're trying to say. you said to put the motor TDC on compression then adjust the rotor so it's on #1....then said if they did this like doing a carb it was wrong, and that it needs to point at the intake manifold bolts?

    the factory service manual says to install the distributor drive gear so that the slot points at the intake manifold bolt, then install the distributor so that the rotor is pointing at the #1 spark plug terminal on the cap.


    and as for the idle speed, I had that cam in my 5.2 idling at 750 rpm and didn't get any misfire codes, no need for a higher idle especially on a larger motor that will "swallow up" the cam some.



    so, did you go get the truck today? is it home in your driveway now? was your attempt to 2 foot drive it home work?
    --Tom
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  19. #69

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    not much sleep at the time.

    put the motor at TDC, the dist rotor back side should point towards the first/second driver side intake manifold bolts, this should show if the dist is right. at this point turn the dist so the rotor is on #1 to set the fuel sync around 0


    on stock tune mine tries to idle around 550-650 but chris set my sct tune for around 850, too low of idle can cause voltage problems
    Brad
    00 CC IB sport 360
    98 RC white sport mildly worked v6, used as a truck!

  20. #70

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    i might have missed this but did you try to hold your idle at say 1200 for like 20 seconds then let your foot off, if it dies try 1500 for like 20 seconds and see if you can reteach your computer to idle. I had to do that when ever I pull my battery for a while. Like others have said your fuel sync may be off too, or the shop may have messed up your IAC when removing the throttle body some how.
    Rob Dunn
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  21. #71



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    I've done 4-5 cam installs, first time I ever saw a cam was the first one...I've never installed the distributor 180 out, a tooth off, fucked this up or that up....But everytime time it ran like shit until I got the Fuel Sync set...You can drive to Taco Bell in Acapulco and back and it'll stil run like shit if the fuel sync is off...

    Set the fucking fuel sync.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Addicted2Blue00 View Post
    not much sleep at the time.

    put the motor at TDC, the dist rotor back side should point towards the first/second driver side intake manifold bolts, this should show if the dist is right. at this point turn the dist so the rotor is on #1 to set the fuel sync around 0


    on stock tune mine tries to idle around 550-650 but chris set my sct tune for around 850, too low of idle can cause voltage problems
    right. basically what the service manual says.

    yes, too low of an idle can cause voltage problems, but who sits around at idle for an hour to drain the battery, without giving it any gas to move forward, even in a traffic jam?

    550-650 may be a tad low, yes, but I don't think you need 850-950 either...unless your converter is so tight it wants to stall out when you put it in gear. I've got mine idling at 750 and I get 12.5 volts at idle with my E-fan running. I can idle all day long and never drain the battery, and 750 gives that perfect lopey idle that we all love so much.
    --Tom
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  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
    I've done 4-5 cam installs, first time I ever saw a cam was the first one...I've never installed the distributor 180 out, a tooth off, fucked this up or that up....But everytime time it ran like shit until I got the Fuel Sync set...You can drive to Taco Bell in Acapulco and back and it'll stil run like shit if the fuel sync is off...

    Set the fucking fuel sync.

    it's pretty hard to mess up the cam and timing when you're not lazy.

    the one time I screwed it up, I put it at TDC, but looked at the rocker arms, saw they were even, and thought that meant they were closed, and that that it was on the compression stroke. I was paying more attention to the balancer marker to make sure I stopped RIGHT at TDC, and wasn't watching the valves move.

    bottom line, I didn't verify that the valves were actually both closed, and that I was on the compression stroke.

    so from that point forward, everything I did was perfectly installed....180 degrees out!

    but, at 180 out, it won't even start. DAMHIK!

    for the truck we're all talking about here, he can at least start it, pointing at either A) fuel sync is off, or B) IAC just needs to learn idle and nobody's had the patience to let it yet.
    --Tom
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  24. #74


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    :banging my head on the wall

    Have you or anyone for that matter tried driving it to let it re-learn how to idle? If not, then don't just have it towed to another shop. Also, make sure the battery is fully charged before you start. If they haven't done both of those two things, NOTHING ELSE is going to help. If the truck can't idle,but will stay running above 1000RPMs, then the install is good enough for the truck to run, you just need to let the PCM re-learn the idle setting with the IAC. Until you do that, you will just be wasting time and money trying to chase a problem might not even be there.


  25. #75



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    IAT plugged into the alternator...?
    11.27 @ 118.23
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