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Thread: Shop messed up the R/T. Now what?!

  1. #1

    Default Shop messed up the R/T. Now what?!

    First off I'd like to thank Tom (70cuda383) for all the great advice and info!

    Well I don't have the tools or knowledge to install a cam(18 yrs old, and in college). They also installed my 1.7 RR's. So I called around and was recommended to this place. I called several times before making sure they could do the job. They reassured me about it and explained how it all works. They call me almost everyday letting me know how it's going(dropped it off last tuesday they told me it would be done on thursday). So on thursday they call me and tell me to come in, I get a ride there and they are still assembling it as I get there. I didn't think but I paid right away, before hearing the truck start up. They go to start it up and it sounds good, but dies under 1k rpm's. They then tell me I need a new tune(which I knew I needed, but wasn't aware it would not run with out it.). I call Chris at Performance Injection Equipment, He hooked me up with a great tune and a bunch of great info! I get the tune yesterday, and hooked it up today at the shop on the truck. Nothing changes, so what's wrong? well, they tell me a carburetor would most likely solve my problem along with a new ignition system. I laughed in my head and just agreed with him I talk to Tom and chris today, Both very very helpful!! Chris thinks they either installed it wrong or the distributor sync is off. As Tom was in the same ballpark as chris, both very very knowledgeable guys with these trucks! well here I am tuesday night, a week later with no truck. What should I do? they aren't putting in the effort to fix it. It drove in perfect and now it's undrivable. What would Y'all suggest? I'm pretty pissed, and I just want my truck back!

    God Bless,
    Eric


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fortino555 View Post
    First off I'd like to thank Tom (70cuda383) for all the great advice and info!

    Well I don't have the tools or knowledge to install a cam(18 yrs old, and in college). They also installed my 1.7 RR's. So I called around and was recommended to this place. I called several times before making sure they could do the job. They reassured me about it and explained how it all works. They call me almost everyday letting me know how it's going(dropped it off last tuesday they told me it would be done on thursday). So on thursday they call me and tell me to come in, I get a ride there and they are still assembling it as I get there. I didn't think but I paid right away, before hearing the truck start up. They go to start it up and it sounds good, but dies under 1k rpm's. They then tell me I need a new tune(which I knew I needed, but wasn't aware it would not run with out it.). I call Chris at Performance Injection Equipment, He hooked me up with a great tune and a bunch of great info! I get the tune yesterday, and hooked it up today at the shop on the truck. Nothing changes, so what's wrong? well, they tell me a carburetor would most likely solve my problem along with a new ignition system. I laughed in my head and just agreed with him I talk to Tom and chris today, Both very very helpful!! Chris thinks they either installed it wrong or the distributor sync is off. As Tom was in the same ballpark as chris, both very very knowledgeable guys with these trucks! well here I am tuesday night, a week later with no truck. What should I do? they aren't putting in the effort to fix it. It drove in perfect and now it's undrivable. What would Y'all suggest? I'm pretty pissed, and I just want my truck back!

    God Bless,
    Eric
    They have to set the fuel sync...If they don't know that it is, have it towed to someone who does. The distributor does not set the timing, just when the injectors fire.

    Dumb asses.
    11.27 @ 118.23
    2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion

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    blackknight's Avatar
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    Jajaja, yea like he ^said

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
    They have to set the fuel sync...If they don't know that it is, have it towed to someone who does. The distributor does not set the timing, just when the injectors fire.

    Dumb asses.
    yeah I wish it was that easy, I have way too much money paid for these guys not too finish the job. I feel like they should pay for that shit. It's bullshit, I wish I knew more about these things and I could do stuff on my own. At least if I screw up, it's on me.


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fortino555 View Post
    yeah I wish it was that easy, I have way too much money paid for these guys not too finish the job. I feel like they should pay for that shit. It's bullshit, I wish I knew more about these things and I could do stuff on my own. At least if I screw up, it's on me.
    Hell yeah they should pay for it, but at some point you need to realize all they can do is fuck it more than it is....

    You don't need to take it to a dodge dealer and use the DRB, Snap on makes a scanner...Maybe someone will chime in.

    Me....I'm going to a carb, I'm done with this scanner crap.
    Last edited by Adobedude; 10-26-2011 at 04:01 AM.
    11.27 @ 118.23
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    DRTC #311

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    morally, they should figure out how to fix your truck.

    but me: i would get my shit the hell out of there before they fuck up more stuff trying to figure it out. cut your losses and save your baby.

    pete

  7. #7

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    How much money we talking to get the fuel sync fixed? like will it take 2 hours or 9 hours? I appreciate everyone's advice and information!!


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fortino555 View Post
    How much money we talking to get the fuel sync fixed? like will it take 2 hours or 9 hours? I appreciate everyone's advice and information!!
    It's tyically 90 bucks here, last time they did it for free...Thought the truck was cool
    11.27 @ 118.23
    2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion

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    SpoR/T driver

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    Just curious, but where did you take the truck?

    '98 RC/SB - Hellcat/6 Speed Swapped
    10.18@139.8mph
    '00 AF RC R/T Under Construction!
    '01 IB RC R/T Under Construction!
    '99 SY CC R/T Sold
    '00 AF RC R/T Sold
    DRTC Member #1181

  10. #10

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    Auto Pro Auto repair. My friend took his car there and had great service, they also had the lowest prices when I called. I'm $1,200 deep in the install along with new timing chain, lift and push rods, etc... I had to buy new RR's too. I am broke. And I can't get to class or work without it. I've been dependent on friends the past week. I'm in need of some help!


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  11. #11


    OG DRTC

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    You need to drive the damn thing. Make sure the battery is fully charged, then just drive it. My truck when I reset the PCM takes a little bit of driving before it will idle on it's own. The PCM needs to learn the new idle settings due to the increased airflow from the cam and lifters. Go back to the shop, and take it out for about a 1/2 hour test drive. You will have to two foot the gas and brake at the beginning to keep the RPMs up, so it doesn't die, until the PCM adjusts the IAC, but it will eventually settle down and idle properly. And next time do NOT pay for anything until you know it works. If they called you saying it was ready, but they were still putting it together when you got there, that should have been the first sign not to pay. But that will just be a lesson learned. But like I said, take it out for a drive and you might be surprised.


  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    You need to drive the damn thing. Make sure the battery is fully charged, then just drive it. My truck when I reset the PCM takes a little bit of driving before it will idle on it's own. The PCM needs to learn the new idle settings due to the increased airflow from the cam and lifters. Go back to the shop, and take it out for about a 1/2 hour test drive. You will have to two foot the gas and brake at the beginning to keep the RPMs up, so it doesn't die, until the PCM adjusts the IAC, but it will eventually settle down and idle properly. And next time do NOT pay for anything until you know it works. If they called you saying it was ready, but they were still putting it together when you got there, that should have been the first sign not to pay. But that will just be a lesson learned. But like I said, take it out for a drive and you might be surprised.
    I agree with Brian, driving it should help a bunch. Even if the sync is off the PCM should figure out how to compensate for it.
    Where in MI are you?


    99 BK RC R/T
    99 SY RC R/T
    98 IB RC R/T

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskr View Post
    You need to drive the damn thing. Make sure the battery is fully charged, then just drive it. My truck when I reset the PCM takes a little bit of driving before it will idle on it's own. The PCM needs to learn the new idle settings due to the increased airflow from the cam and lifters. Go back to the shop, and take it out for about a 1/2 hour test drive. You will have to two foot the gas and brake at the beginning to keep the RPMs up, so it doesn't die, until the PCM adjusts the IAC, but it will eventually settle down and idle properly. And next time do NOT pay for anything until you know it works. If they called you saying it was ready, but they were still putting it together when you got there, that should have been the first sign not to pay. But that will just be a lesson learned. But like I said, take it out for a drive and you might be surprised.

    This is what I was telling you yesteday about the IAC needing to re-learn how to idle with the new vacuum signal, that cam will idle around 12" vs the stock 18-19" of vacuum. the IAC does not know what to do to stay running.

    did you find out if it will stay running by using the pedal to keep RPM above 1000 rpm? if it will stay running above 1000 rpm with pedal input, then yes, go drive it, 2-footing the pedal while stopped.

    The fuel sync could be off,but probably not that much that it matters. if it's close, it'll run. when I installed this new 5.9L I lined up the distrubutor so that the rotor is pointed at the #1 spark plug terminal on the cap, with the piston at TDC compression stroke on cylinder #1. this procedure is also probably in that chiltons book I gave you a few weeks ago. that will get your fuel sync close enough to run.

    Also, check out bionicdodge.com they have a lot of good tech articles, to include how to adjust your TV cable--I glanced at that real quick before we did your cable, since I had never really messed with one of these trucks with an automatic trans

    here's the link:

    http://www.bionicdodge.com/bionic%20downloads.htm

    read the article for "how to adjust idle for a Magnum" and while you're at it go ahead and read "camshaft timing and setting and fuel sync"

    Good luck.
    --Tom
    **Photobucket can suck my nut**

    I'm a douchebag

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    Hugh Jassole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortino555 View Post
    First off I'd like to thank Tom (70cuda383) for all the great advice and info!

    Well I don't have the tools or knowledge to install a cam(18 yrs old, and in college). They also installed my 1.7 RR's. So I called around and was recommended to this place. I called several times before making sure they could do the job. They reassured me about it and explained how it all works. They call me almost everyday letting me know how it's going(dropped it off last tuesday they told me it would be done on thursday). So on thursday they call me and tell me to come in, I get a ride there and they are still assembling it as I get there. I didn't think but I paid right away, before hearing the truck start up. They go to start it up and it sounds good, but dies under 1k rpm's. They then tell me I need a new tune(which I knew I needed, but wasn't aware it would not run with out it.). I call Chris at Performance Injection Equipment, He hooked me up with a great tune and a bunch of great info! I get the tune yesterday, and hooked it up today at the shop on the truck. Nothing changes, so what's wrong? well, they tell me a carburetor would most likely solve my problem along with a new ignition system. I laughed in my head and just agreed with him I talk to Tom and chris today, Both very very helpful!! Chris thinks they either installed it wrong or the distributor sync is off. As Tom was in the same ballpark as chris, both very very knowledgeable guys with these trucks! well here I am tuesday night, a week later with no truck. What should I do? they aren't putting in the effort to fix it. It drove in perfect and now it's undrivable. What would Y'all suggest? I'm pretty pissed, and I just want my truck back!

    God Bless,
    Eric
    loosen the dist and turn slightly until it'll at least idle. there is somewhat of a notch, you'll feel it, at some point in the travel. That, supposedly, will put you close to 0*. That should let it idle nicely. What are the cam specs ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Adams View Post
    I agree with Brian, driving it should help a bunch. Even if the sync is off the PCM should figure out how to compensate for it.
    Where in MI are you?
    The PCM can't compenstate for the Sync being way off...I slowly turn my Distributor till it will idle and head straight to the dealer with a DRB.
    11.27 @ 118.23
    2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion

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    sox amigo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
    The PCM can't compenstate for the Sync being way off...I slowly turn my Distributor till it will idle and head straight to the dealer with a DRB.
    agreed!!
    <img src=images/smilies/worky.gif border=0 alt= title=Worky class=inlineimg />

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    with the notch in the distributor and the factory distributor bracket...it's pretty much impossible to install it WAY out of spec. you have about a 15 degree window that you can spin the distributor in, which is only about 7.5 degrees of crankshaft rotation...i.e. not a big window. if you get outside of that "window" the hold down bracket won't even go on. the tab on the bracket, that fits into the notch on the distributor, keeps it from lining up the bolt hole, until you get the distributor into the "window"

    I doubt it's the fuel sync. my truck fired right up once I got the distributor "right" --I had it 180 out at first-- and as long as I kept the distributor lined up with the tab on the hold down bracket, the truck was idling just fine. I even tried turning it from one extreme to the next, trying to see if it made any difference in start up, idle, etc. and it made no difference, so I centered it up and locked it down, and haven't used the scan tool to set my fuel sync in the PCM. running and driving for 200 miles now, and 1 dyno session.

    I still say it's just a low battery from sitting for a week (unless they unhooked it that whole time, then nothing would have drained the battery in a week...unless it's just an old junk battery) and that your IAC needs to re-learn idle with the new vacuum signal it's seeing from the cam, along with the new timing and fuel curve from the tune.
    --Tom
    **Photobucket can suck my nut**

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    A low battery will freak out the PCM, that's for certain.
    11.27 @ 118.23
    2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
    A low battery will freak out the PCM, that's for certain.
    True story!

    just the other day, I was headed into town to pick something up. got half way there and realized my alternator quit charging, my headlights were dim, and my voltmeter was showing around 12 volts. Figured "eh, it's a 5 minute drive, and a 10 minute drive home....I'll make it"

    now...I've driven carb'd vehicles before up to 45 minutes on just a battery and not had any problem.

    ...but apparently these EFI vehicles suck up a LOT more juice...especially at night with the headlights on!

    I did make it home ok, but the last few miles the truck started running really poorly, and would surge and backfire if I tried to give it too much gas. got home, and it wouldn't even re-start! volt meter was showing around 9-10 volts by this time.

    found out that I either forgot to tighten down the nuts that hold all the wires to the back of the alternator when I re-installed the engine...or they backed off on their own, but I tightened everything up, jumped the truck, and it was running like a champ again at a solid 14 volts.
    --Tom
    **Photobucket can suck my nut**

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    There is also a possibility that the distributor drive shaft was installed wrong. It has to be clocked at a certain angle to let you set the sync correctly.

    As for setting the sync, the shop should have a Snap On scanner (or similar). There is a program in it called "set sync", (not check sync signal), which will run the idle up a little bit and display the setting number. All they have to do is loosen the distributor, turn it until it reaches Zero and lock it down again. It might take 15 minutes. They should set if for free.
    Alan Short
    D.R.T.C. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by grapejuice1998 View Post
    There is also a possibility that the distributor drive shaft was installed wrong. It has to be clocked at a certain angle to let you set the sync correctly.

    As for setting the sync, the shop should have a Snap On scanner (or similar). There is a program in it called "set sync", (not check sync signal), which will run the idle up a little bit and display the setting number. All they have to do is loosen the distributor, turn it until it reaches Zero and lock it down again. It might take 15 minutes. They should set if for free.
    True...that little slot in the oil pump/distributor driveshaft needs to be pointing over towards the #1 cylinder. or, pointing slightly left of parallel to the camshaft when viewing it from the back of the motor. took me a few times to get it to line up properly, since it rotates about 15 degrees as the gears mesh together as it seats down fully
    --Tom
    **Photobucket can suck my nut**

    I'm a douchebag

  22. #22

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    Thanks guys for all the advice!! Well i plan on going to the shop today and i don't want to leave without it. Im willing to try driving it! Ill tell them what you guys have told me!

    Thanks,
    Eric


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  23. #23

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    UPDATE: well, I called the shop, they talked to chris at P.I.E., they are going to try what he said, if not they are telling me I'll need a distributor and a carburator. Which I don't agree with, nor does to Tom. I am nearly broke, tomorrow they will have an answer for me. But I don't really trust them, everyone here knows alot more about these things!


    1999 CC black R/T
    Engine/trans mods
    230/236 cam,Edelbrock heads,1.6 roller rockers,2800 Stall,M1intake,k&n CAI,55mm TB, 4.56 gears,SCT tuned,TransGo shift kit,firecore wires,trans cooler,Spintech mid legnth headers,custom true duals no cats,KB Hyper pistons,Eagle forged I-beam rods,Electric Fan, Caltracs, underdrive pulley, belltech leafs.


    -200+lbs (off the truck)

  24. #24

    I like free kittens

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    show them these videos. this is the exact cam that I sold you.

    I pulled the 318 out for my new 360, I removed the cam, wrapped it, and shipped it to you.

    I'm running a stock EFI distributor, MSD ignition, and the SCT tune. all the sensors in the engine are stock.

    when I got the truck, it had this cam in it, and was running on the stock ignition system with the stock coil.

    if they can't get it to run with the SCT tune, then they fucked something up, and you need to quit being nice to them. they need to figure out how to get it running. did they dial in the cam? is it installed correctly? did they use a degree wheel, or just line up some dots? did the ensure it's not way advanced or way retarded?

    have they played with the IAC at all? will it stay running with pedal input? or does it struggle and die no matter what?


    show them this thread, anyone can pull it up and read it, don't need to have a username/password to read the threads here.

    http://youtu.be/yE1TEut-3ZY

    http://youtu.be/PSFEIY5_iws



    Last edited by Filthy Filbert; 10-26-2011 at 06:43 PM.
    --Tom
    **Photobucket can suck my nut**

    I'm a douchebag

  25. #25



    grapejuice1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortino555 View Post
    UPDATE: well, I called the shop, they talked to chris at P.I.E., they are going to try what he said, if not they are telling me I'll need a distributor and a carburator. Which I don't agree with, nor does to Tom. I am nearly broke, tomorrow they will have an answer for me. But I don't really trust them, everyone here knows alot more about these things!
    Horseshit!
    Alan Short
    D.R.T.C. #15


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