Im thinking of ditching the 4 barrel M1 for the hughes F1 airgap. Has anybody ran both? I want more torque in the bottom end. The 4.56's brought a little low end torque but im not happy with it.
Im thinking of ditching the 4 barrel M1 for the hughes F1 airgap. Has anybody ran both? I want more torque in the bottom end. The 4.56's brought a little low end torque but im not happy with it.
SCT
MSD 6AL-2
MSD HVC coil
Modded kegger
F&B 55x52 TB
AEM CAI
MP polished valve covers
Crane cam
1.7 NA HS RR's
4.56 Yukon gears
Detroit Locker
PATC level 3 mega viper racing trans
Viper 3000 stall
Gibson headers
3" full exhaust
Magnaflow mufflers
What else is done to your engine? I have a 02 dodge ram with a hughes airgap on it and I am fairly happy with it. I also have 1.7RR and a 52mm Fastman on it. I get about 1 mpg better than I am suppose to get. They claim 2-4..... It performs ok for a basically stock engine
2003 Dakota R/THibernationPrevious Best10.77@124
*Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level
Don't skip out on the M1 just yet..hold off a bit longer. I'm telling you and all others that read this...my turtle design will help the bottom end of those running at least NA with the M1 4bbl. I just need another month or so to make and test a few variations. Stay away from the dual plane!!!
I have had the M1,ported stocker and now the air gap, the M1 gave up alot on the low end, and the stocker ran out of guts at 4500. I know the intake is for a carb set up,but it works great. Guys say Hughes sucks,he may but the intake works well and without the low end loss. If your going full race then use the M1 4-barrel. I have stock converter,3.92 gears and stock cam. I have 1.7 roller rockers,pph headers and an F&B 50mm throttle body.I also had it sct tuned by Hemifever.
Last edited by BOBSRT; 08-14-2010 at 08:04 PM.
2003 Dakota R/THibernationPrevious Best10.77@124
*Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level
Which M-1 did you have? If you had the 4-barrel M-1 you might have a little torque loss on the bottom, but if you had the 2-barrel you didn't have the right tune. There is no way that Hughes' paper weight dual plane is going to be better than a M-1 2-barrel with the mods you have. Sean can tune the M-1 2-barrel to work where you don't loose bottom end. Unless you have dyno sheets to prove otherwise, Hughes' air gap is nothing more than a very expensive paper weight. It was, is, and always will be a carburetor specific intake.
Edelbrock Magnum heads, Harland-Sharp 1:6 RR, Jomar Performance Ultra-Lite Stud Girdle, SoutheastPerformance Sheet Metal Valve Covers, Custom Hyd Roller from Reed Cams, Mopar M-1 2 Brl Intake, Hughes Stage 1 TB, JBA SS Headers, Jacobs Electronics Pro Street Ignition System and Wires, MBRP 'Cuda Style Exhaust, Western Chassis 2" drop front and rear, Edelbrock IAS Shocks, Terry DeLong Pro-Glass Shaker Hood
Interested in the 4bbl M1 if you decide to run the airgap.
I'll trade you my 2bbl for your 4 bbl. It's powdercoated a real purty silver color
I had the two barrrel at the time,with a kenne bell blower and I was looking to wake things up a bit,this was ten years ago before Sct. I pulled it because even with boost it took alot away down low,I then shortened the runners on the kegger and did some mild port work and got the bottom end back. While a tune can help you get the most,it's not going to make the intake work better. I put the Hughes intake on and it ran good,a week later I got my Sct tune from hemifever and it really woke things up. It didn't hurt the low end like the M1 did. This is not the first time someone has stated that the M1 hurt things down low,and besides the M1 is still made around an old school carbed singe plane intake. What makes the four barrel model any better,it was made to flow fuel as well. The two barrel model is just a modified so you don't need the adapter plate like the four barrel unit. The short runners kill low end,and thats why you see a barrel style intake on the 6.1 I don't see why someone would say the intake sucks,when alot of fast trucks run a four barrel intake that was ment to flow fuel. The air gap intake will outflow the two barrel and the kegger and is very close with the four barrel M1 on flow,so if it only flows air why couldn't it be as good or better than the M1.
I don't buy that you lost low end with the m1 and KB, I bet you picked it up but the tune sucked so bad you couldn't take advantage of it. I have datalogs with full boost at 1200rpms.
'99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
Z Code Performance Website
When i had it on was ten years ago, before Sct. I didn't need a datalog to tell that I had i lost low end, I would have loved to have had a good tune,but that's what I had. If you don't like the intake, don't get it! Much of the mopar performance stuff didn't live up to test after test,untill the ability to tune for them. The heads,cam, intake never made huge gains like people would have expected. Why is the M1 four barrel any better than the airgap? I like how guys her are fast to knock someone down when I at least had the intake to compare.
2003 Dakota R/THibernationPrevious Best10.77@124
*Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level
Things have come a long way,but that being said when I switched from the kegger to the air gap without the blower, my truck still ran strong down low. Why do guys need to put turtles in the M1 if it's so great?
Your beating a dead horse. It's all too common and just part of the mentality that doesn't look beyond the pages of the MP bible. I've been involved with racing mopars for 35yrs and its always been the same,sorta sad. Yep the MP stuff is the best ever and no reason to pull your head out and look around. LOLRun what works and when someone puts a foot up yours with parts that you don't understand,just spend some more $$$ ,still not very impressive.
http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/ Sorry to put a link to a friends shop,just thought someone might want to see outside the box,yes they are CARBED manifolds converted to EFI,sorry if it hurts. Seems that alot of big hp combos don't mind at all. Have fun guys
Who puts turtles in their M1s? I certainly havent.
THere is absolutely no torque loss with an M1. Thats some myth the heavy ram guys came up with to justify $200 keggar port jobs...lol.
THe keggar is a shit manifold. Heavy, pathetic and restrictive.
The M1 is none of that.
THe airgap is an abortion.
I'll stick with my single plane intakes any day to go fast!!
Sinlge planes are not meant for down low power (below 2000 rpms).
On the flip side dual planes aren't designed to make power up top over (5000-6000 rpms).
Then again it all comes down to a matched combo.
Only 1 question I do have (more like doubts). Both intakes show a set RPM range and they both show being applicable for 318 and 360s and we know several have used them on 408s and the Magnum motor is even capable of 426cui.
Sorry but that rpm range would be different on each and every one of those engines based on CUI, Head Flow, cam, etc.
Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
(Still in the Fab Shop)
Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block
You still breathing air? Hughes doesn't make anything. You likley think Comp has some kids making valve springs and other trinkets!LOL Show us your impressive stuff,when are you coming to gainesville to bust the junky dakota with the china intake a crappy carb!!LOL What a waste of space,your a joke and thats being very nice.
Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
(Still in the Fab Shop)
Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block
So what manifold would be perfect for a 4000lb truck with a 2500 converter and peak power at 5000rpm? You claim you'll bet any $$$ so I say come on over lets see what you got,I'll be nice and not make it a true heads up race. I'll spot you .1 per 100pounds. Seems very fair to me,what do you think?
Im well aware of the Hughes position in the aftermarket.
They are a reseller... nothing more.
As for the other "challenge". I think you are quite abit slower than me.
Unless youre trapping north of 150 and south of 9.0s... keep your leaking ass junk off the racing surface.