+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 94

Thread: M1&Hughes F1 airgap

  1. #1
    Bos-R/T's Avatar
    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wooley Swamp in east ABALAMA
    Posts
    1,589

    Default M1&Hughes F1 airgap

    Im thinking of ditching the 4 barrel M1 for the hughes F1 airgap. Has anybody ran both? I want more torque in the bottom end. The 4.56's brought a little low end torque but im not happy with it.


    SCT
    MSD 6AL-2
    MSD HVC coil
    Modded kegger
    F&B 55x52 TB
    AEM CAI
    MP polished valve covers
    Crane cam
    1.7 NA HS RR's
    4.56 Yukon gears
    Detroit Locker
    PATC level 3 mega viper racing trans
    Viper 3000 stall
    Gibson headers
    3" full exhaust
    Magnaflow mufflers

  2. #2
    95kota408's Avatar
    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    155

    Default

    What else is done to your engine? I have a 02 dodge ram with a hughes airgap on it and I am fairly happy with it. I also have 1.7RR and a 52mm Fastman on it. I get about 1 mpg better than I am suppose to get. They claim 2-4..... It performs ok for a basically stock engine

  3. #3

    SB440R/T's Avatar
    Got Beer?

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC
    Posts
    9,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bos-R/T View Post
    Im thinking of ditching the 4 barrel M1 for the hughes F1 airgap. Has anybody ran both? I want more torque in the bottom end. The 4.56's brought a little low end torque but im not happy with it.
    Have you had it tuned?

    That's the difference a tune can do.

    2003 Dakota R/T
    Hibernation
    Previous Best
    10.77@124

    *Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Triangle, VA
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bos-R/T View Post
    Im thinking of ditching the 4 barrel M1 for the hughes F1 airgap. Has anybody ran both? I want more torque in the bottom end. The 4.56's brought a little low end torque but im not happy with it.
    Don't skip out on the M1 just yet..hold off a bit longer. I'm telling you and all others that read this...my turtle design will help the bottom end of those running at least NA with the M1 4bbl. I just need another month or so to make and test a few variations. Stay away from the dual plane!!!

  5. #5
    Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio
    Posts
    76

    Default M1&Hughes F1 airgap

    I have had the M1,ported stocker and now the air gap, the M1 gave up alot on the low end, and the stocker ran out of guts at 4500. I know the intake is for a carb set up,but it works great. Guys say Hughes sucks,he may but the intake works well and without the low end loss. If your going full race then use the M1 4-barrel. I have stock converter,3.92 gears and stock cam. I have 1.7 roller rockers,pph headers and an F&B 50mm throttle body.I also had it sct tuned by Hemifever.
    Last edited by BOBSRT; 08-14-2010 at 08:04 PM.

  6. #6

    SB440R/T's Avatar
    Got Beer?

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC
    Posts
    9,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    I have had the M1,ported stocker and now the air gap, the M1 gave up alot on the low end, and the stocker ran out of guts at 4500. I know the intake is for a carb set up,but it works great. Guys say Hughes sucks,he may but the intake works well and without the low end loss. If your going full race then use the M1 4-barrel. I have stock converter,3.92 gears and stock cam. I have 1.7 roller rockers,pph headers and an F&B 50mm throttle body.I also had it sct tuned by Hemifever.
    Did you do a datalog tune on all three?
    2003 Dakota R/T
    Hibernation
    Previous Best
    10.77@124

    *Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level

  7. #7
    kota360's Avatar
    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hamilton, On., Ca.
    Posts
    910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    I have had the M1,ported stocker and now the air gap, the M1 gave up alot on the low end, and the stocker ran out of guts at 4500. I know the intake is for a carb set up,but it works great. Guys say Hughes sucks,he may but the intake works well and without the low end loss. If your going full race then use the M1 4-barrel. I have stock converter,3.92 gears and stock cam. I have 1.7 roller rockers,pph headers and an F&B 50mm throttle body.I also had it sct tuned by Hemifever.
    Which M-1 did you have? If you had the 4-barrel M-1 you might have a little torque loss on the bottom, but if you had the 2-barrel you didn't have the right tune. There is no way that Hughes' paper weight dual plane is going to be better than a M-1 2-barrel with the mods you have. Sean can tune the M-1 2-barrel to work where you don't loose bottom end. Unless you have dyno sheets to prove otherwise, Hughes' air gap is nothing more than a very expensive paper weight. It was, is, and always will be a carburetor specific intake.
    Edelbrock Magnum heads, Harland-Sharp 1:6 RR, Jomar Performance Ultra-Lite Stud Girdle, SoutheastPerformance Sheet Metal Valve Covers, Custom Hyd Roller from Reed Cams, Mopar M-1 2 Brl Intake, Hughes Stage 1 TB, JBA SS Headers, Jacobs Electronics Pro Street Ignition System and Wires, MBRP 'Cuda Style Exhaust, Western Chassis 2" drop front and rear, Edelbrock IAS Shocks, Terry DeLong Pro-Glass Shaker Hood

  8. #8

    Default

    Interested in the 4bbl M1 if you decide to run the airgap.

  9. #9

    Hugh Jassole's Avatar
    Shoo Shoo Retarded Flu !!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Deep in the Swamps of Jersey
    Posts
    7,310

    Default

    I'll trade you my 2bbl for your 4 bbl. It's powdercoated a real purty silver color

  10. #10
    Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio
    Posts
    76

    Default M1&Hughes F1 airgap

    I had the two barrrel at the time,with a kenne bell blower and I was looking to wake things up a bit,this was ten years ago before Sct. I pulled it because even with boost it took alot away down low,I then shortened the runners on the kegger and did some mild port work and got the bottom end back. While a tune can help you get the most,it's not going to make the intake work better. I put the Hughes intake on and it ran good,a week later I got my Sct tune from hemifever and it really woke things up. It didn't hurt the low end like the M1 did. This is not the first time someone has stated that the M1 hurt things down low,and besides the M1 is still made around an old school carbed singe plane intake. What makes the four barrel model any better,it was made to flow fuel as well. The two barrel model is just a modified so you don't need the adapter plate like the four barrel unit. The short runners kill low end,and thats why you see a barrel style intake on the 6.1 I don't see why someone would say the intake sucks,when alot of fast trucks run a four barrel intake that was ment to flow fuel. The air gap intake will outflow the two barrel and the kegger and is very close with the four barrel M1 on flow,so if it only flows air why couldn't it be as good or better than the M1.

  11. #11


    Blown and Squirted

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    8,150

    Default

    I don't buy that you lost low end with the m1 and KB, I bet you picked it up but the tune sucked so bad you couldn't take advantage of it. I have datalogs with full boost at 1200rpms.

    '99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 10" 3800, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
    Z Code Performance Website

  12. #12
    Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio
    Posts
    76

    Default M1&Hughes F1 airgap

    When i had it on was ten years ago, before Sct. I didn't need a datalog to tell that I had i lost low end, I would have loved to have had a good tune,but that's what I had. If you don't like the intake, don't get it! Much of the mopar performance stuff didn't live up to test after test,untill the ability to tune for them. The heads,cam, intake never made huge gains like people would have expected. Why is the M1 four barrel any better than the airgap? I like how guys her are fast to knock someone down when I at least had the intake to compare.

  13. #13

    SB440R/T's Avatar
    Got Beer?

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC
    Posts
    9,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    When i had it on was ten years ago, before Sct. I didn't need a datalog to tell that I had i lost low end, I would have loved to have had a good tune,but that's what I had. If you don't like the intake, don't get it! Much of the mopar performance stuff didn't live up to test after test,untill the ability to tune for them. The heads,cam, intake never made huge gains like people would have expected. Why is the M1 four barrel any better than the airgap? I like how guys her are fast to knock someone down when I at least had the intake to compare.
    You can't compare this shit from 10 years ago to today. Why cause you had one tuned and probably running lean as hell.
    2003 Dakota R/T
    Hibernation
    Previous Best
    10.77@124

    *Disclaimer - All suggestions given for performance modifications is assuming that you live close or at Sea Level

  14. #14
    Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio
    Posts
    76

    Default M1&Hughes F1 airgap

    Things have come a long way,but that being said when I switched from the kegger to the air gap without the blower, my truck still ran strong down low. Why do guys need to put turtles in the M1 if it's so great?

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    Things have come a long way,but that being said when I switched from the kegger to the air gap without the blower, my truck still ran strong down low. Why do guys need to put turtles in the M1 if it's so great?
    Your beating a dead horse. It's all too common and just part of the mentality that doesn't look beyond the pages of the MP bible. I've been involved with racing mopars for 35yrs and its always been the same,sorta sad. Yep the MP stuff is the best ever and no reason to pull your head out and look around. LOLRun what works and when someone puts a foot up yours with parts that you don't understand,just spend some more $$$ ,still not very impressive.

  16. #16
    Unnamed moocher

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Swamps of FL
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    I had the two barrrel at the time,with a kenne bell blower and I was looking to wake things up a bit,this was ten years ago before Sct. I pulled it because even with boost it took alot away down low,I then shortened the runners on the kegger and did some mild port work and got the bottom end back. While a tune can help you get the most,it's not going to make the intake work better. I put the Hughes intake on and it ran good,a week later I got my Sct tune from hemifever and it really woke things up. It didn't hurt the low end like the M1 did. This is not the first time someone has stated that the M1 hurt things down low,and besides the M1 is still made around an old school carbed singe plane intake. What makes the four barrel model any better,it was made to flow fuel as well. The two barrel model is just a modified so you don't need the adapter plate like the four barrel unit. The short runners kill low end,and thats why you see a barrel style intake on the 6.1 I don't see why someone would say the intake sucks,when alot of fast trucks run a four barrel intake that was ment to flow fuel. The air gap intake will outflow the two barrel and the kegger and is very close with the four barrel M1 on flow,so if it only flows air why couldn't it be as good or better than the M1.
    wow. You noticed torque loss with a blower??? Absolutely amazing.

    THe dual plane is junk. Id bet any amount of $$$ on it.
    Hughes makes junk... not speed parts.

  17. #17

    Default

    http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/ Sorry to put a link to a friends shop,just thought someone might want to see outside the box,yes they are CARBED manifolds converted to EFI,sorry if it hurts. Seems that alot of big hp combos don't mind at all. Have fun guys

  18. #18
    Unnamed moocher

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Swamps of FL
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBSRT View Post
    Things have come a long way,but that being said when I switched from the kegger to the air gap without the blower, my truck still ran strong down low. Why do guys need to put turtles in the M1 if it's so great?
    Who puts turtles in their M1s? I certainly havent.
    THere is absolutely no torque loss with an M1. Thats some myth the heavy ram guys came up with to justify $200 keggar port jobs...lol.

    THe keggar is a shit manifold. Heavy, pathetic and restrictive.
    The M1 is none of that.

    THe airgap is an abortion.

  19. #19


    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Here & There
    Posts
    3,355

    Default

    I'll stick with my single plane intakes any day to go fast!!

    Sinlge planes are not meant for down low power (below 2000 rpms).

    On the flip side dual planes aren't designed to make power up top over (5000-6000 rpms).

    Then again it all comes down to a matched combo.

    Only 1 question I do have (more like doubts). Both intakes show a set RPM range and they both show being applicable for 318 and 360s and we know several have used them on 408s and the Magnum motor is even capable of 426cui.

    Sorry but that rpm range would be different on each and every one of those engines based on CUI, Head Flow, cam, etc.
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

  20. #20
    Unnamed moocher

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Swamps of FL
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldmember View Post
    http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/ Sorry to put a link to a friends shop,just thought someone might want to see outside the box,yes they are CARBED manifolds converted to EFI,sorry if it hurts. Seems that alot of big hp combos don't mind at all. Have fun guys

    Sheet metal intake would be par for the course if you had an engine worthy of such a creation. Runners set up appropriately for the operating RPM.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBlew View Post
    wow. You noticed torque loss with a blower??? Absolutely amazing.

    THe dual plane is junk. Id bet any amount of $$$ on it.
    Hughes makes junk... not speed parts.
    You still breathing air? Hughes doesn't make anything. You likley think Comp has some kids making valve springs and other trinkets!LOL Show us your impressive stuff,when are you coming to gainesville to bust the junky dakota with the china intake a crappy carb!!LOL What a waste of space,your a joke and thats being very nice.

  22. #22


    Senior Member

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Here & There
    Posts
    3,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldmember View Post
    http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/ Sorry to put a link to a friends shop,just thought someone might want to see outside the box,yes they are CARBED manifolds converted to EFI,sorry if it hurts. Seems that alot of big hp combos don't mind at all. Have fun guys
    Looks good too me!!!

    People forget you can't compare what the MFGs do, to what the Performance world does.

    I was going to write a long explaination about intake (pointing out the obvious) BUT let 'em run what they want!!!

    I know what works on my combos!!
    Tha DakFink: 1999 Solar Yellow R/Three 468cui, W9-RP heads, Twin 76mm Turbos, Powerglide Trans. , Bob's Fab Shop 25.3 SFI Chassis for 10.5W racing .
    (Still in the Fab Shop)

    Hot rodder rule of thumb....every $1 invested in head flow is roughly worth $3 in the short block

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBlew View Post
    Sheet metal intake would be par for the course if you had an engine worthy of such a creation. Runners set up appropriately for the operating RPM.
    So what manifold would be perfect for a 4000lb truck with a 2500 converter and peak power at 5000rpm? You claim you'll bet any $$$ so I say come on over lets see what you got,I'll be nice and not make it a true heads up race. I'll spot you .1 per 100pounds. Seems very fair to me,what do you think?

  24. #24
    Unnamed moocher

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Swamps of FL
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldmember View Post
    You still breathing air? Hughes doesn't make anything. You likley think Comp has some kids making valve springs and other trinkets!LOL Show us your impressive stuff,when are you coming to gainesville to bust the junky dakota with the china intake a crappy carb!!LOL What a waste of space,your a joke and thats being very nice.
    Im well aware of the Hughes position in the aftermarket.
    They are a reseller... nothing more.

    As for the other "challenge". I think you are quite abit slower than me.
    Unless youre trapping north of 150 and south of 9.0s... keep your leaking ass junk off the racing surface.

  25. #25
    Unnamed moocher

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Swamps of FL
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldmember View Post
    So what manifold would be perfect for a 4000lb truck with a 2500 converter and peak power at 5000rpm? You claim you'll bet any $$$ so I say come on over lets see what you got,I'll be nice and not make it a true heads up race. I'll spot you .1 per 100pounds. Seems very fair to me,what do you think?
    Ill spot you a solid 5 seconds if youre feeling froggy with a slow ass 4cylinder 2 seater!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •