Torque Management... how do you know?

[Miggity]

Here's an interesting question: How do I know when torque management is doing what it does? Some people have told me that the transmission will sound like it's slipping or hunting a little, others have told me the truck will fall on it's face while accelerating. Maybe torque management is a story that someone made up to keep us from noticing impending mechanical failures... like the boogieman, except with tow trucks. Any insight?

- miggity

[grapejuice1998]

Here's an interesting question: How do I know when torque management is doing what it does? Some people have told me that the transmission will sound like it's slipping or hunting a little, others have told me the truck will fall on it's face while accelerating. Maybe torque management is a story that someone made up to keep us from noticing impending mechanical failures... like the boogieman, except with tow trucks. Any insight?

- miggity

It dogs out down low to keep the tires from spinning, then kicks in and runs as strong as traction would allow. Once removed, it should roast the tires like an earlier model.

P.S. different manufacturers use different ways of limiting the power. Some actually push back on the pedal. Not Dodges though.

[wyotech_cuda440]

My 2002 had torque management, it would spin the tires a little, probably to 10-15 mph. With the sct the torque management was disabled, and it made a huge difference. When it was stock, it felt perfectly smooth and normal, just with less power at low rpm, and the power would start to pick up around 3k rpm.

[ddrango]

My 2002 had torque management, it would spin the tires a little, probably to 10-15 mph. With the sct the torque management was disabled, and it made a huge difference. When it was stock, it felt perfectly smooth and normal, just with less power at low rpm, and the power would start to pick up around 3k rpm.

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

[jmaack727]

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

Sure there is, it just retards the timing iirc.

[wyotech_cuda440]

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

No, I'm talkin about the cuda :jester: :biggthumpup:

[sunike32]

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

Huh?? Are you disputing the torque management on the later-year Daks? (was it only the 03-04 Dakotas?)

[wyotech_cuda440]

My 02 had it.

[ddrango]

I think you guys were mislead. As far as I know, torque management started in 03' on 5.7s, as well as 4.7s in 00'.

[Five9Dak]

No matter what you call it, the later trucks had less timing down, this has been established for many years. Consequently, the later trucks have larger gains from a performance flash. (back in the day most people were running the same off the shelf flash)

The reports from owners of stock late model R/Ts are nothing like the tire shreading torque that the earlier ones had.

[BryanRT360]

my understand is that torque management started in 2001+. but its only in first gear that it pulls some timing back.

[ddrango]

Well hot damn, :hail:

[Rods59rt]

My truck had the "death flash" and boy was I pissed when it came back from the dealer.No balls on the bottom end like it had before.

[ddrango]

My truck had the "death flash" and boy was I pissed when it came back from the dealer.No balls on the bottom end like it had before.

My truck has great bottom end, spins first and second if I try. But I htink mostly because my shift points are set at 4700rpm.

[grapejuice1998]

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

<coughbullshitcough>

[jmaack727]

My truck has great bottom end, spins first and second if I try. But I htink mostly because my shift points are set at 4700rpm.

Get some SCT and have it changed along with the other things you will enjoy it even more.:rockwoot:

[ddrango]

Get some SCT and have it changed along with the other things you will enjoy it even more.:rockwoot:

I have a programmer lol, I set I that way lol. No point revving past 5k they fall flat on their faces.

[Miggity]

It dogs out down low to keep the tires from spinning, then kicks in and runs as strong as traction would allow. Once removed, it should roast the tires like an earlier model.

P.S. different manufacturers use different ways of limiting the power. Some actually push back on the pedal. Not Dodges though.

Ah, that makes sense. My R/T will eliminate thousands of miles of treadlife at the drop of a pedal, so torque management isn't the culprit. I'm trying to get to the bottom of a funny shifting issue that the truck has had since I bought it, and my last R/T (2001) did the same thing. Sounds like it's slipping when it goes into OD, and the RPMs fluctuate when the truck is about to downshift or come out of lockup under light load. It got noticeably more pronounced when I put the 4.56's in. Just wondering if it's a PCM thing since my 00' does it, the 01' I used to have did it, and my buddy's 01' and 02' both do it.

- miggity

[Branx5.9]

Ah, that makes sense. My R/T will eliminate thousands of miles of treadlife at the drop of a pedal, so torque management isn't the culprit. I'm trying to get to the bottom of a funny shifting issue that the truck has had since I bought it, and my last R/T (2001) did the same thing. Sounds like it's slipping when it goes into OD, and the RPMs fluctuate when the truck is about to downshift or come out of lockup under light load. It got noticeably more pronounced when I put the 4.56's in. Just wondering if it's a PCM thing since my 00' does it, the 01' I used to have did it, and my buddy's 01' and 02' both do it.

- miggity

I think when it feels like it's slipping going into overdrive that may just be the torque coverter locking up. Mine does the same thing.

[jstahl1985]

I guess mine would have torque management (an 03) and I remember the day i bought it i launched it at a light (or tried lol) and it barked first a little bit, needless to say i was more than a little disappointed because my buddy's bone stock 2000 would burn through first gear. first mod i did was superchips and i dont know if it eliminates the torque management or not but it surely lit up the tires wayyyyyy more after.

[dyno05]

I think you guys were mislead. As far as I know, torque management started in 03' on 5.7s, as well as 4.7s in 00'.

I have a 98 that I have owned since 98 and I can tell you without a doubt it had torque management. When I sent my pcm out to have it removed, I gained .9 seconds in the quarter. It was readily apparent with my loose converter. I would mash the pedal and the truck sounded like it was on a revlimiter and accelerate slowly for about a second, then it would take off like crazy. The issue was the sensor in the tailshaft of the transmission would "see" the increased engine rpm but the truck wasnt moving at the speed the PCM was looking for at that rpm and it would kill the timing. B&G told me it was torque management. I dont know if that is the real name however. Maybe the torque management on the newer models works differently.
I told B&G about the problem I was having, they told me to test their theory, unplug the connector in the tailshaft and take it for a spin, they said you will know right away if it is torque management. "The trans wont shift properly, but it should be an animal off the line". Guess what, sure as hell that was the issue.

[stevenz1inoc]

You're not talking about your Dak, right?

No such thing as torque management on a throttle cable-ed vehicle, only DBW (drive-by-wire) vehicles.

My 2001 has it, I had it removed with my first canned flash from Tom Fox, I'm not sure what the interface looks like with his tunning software but he said it was there.

[grapejuice1998]

I have a 98 that I have owned since 98 and I can tell you without a doubt it had torque management. When I sent my pcm out to have it removed, I gained .9 seconds in the quarter. It was readily apparent with my loose converter. I would mash the pedal and the truck sounded like it was on a revlimiter and accelerate slowly for about a second, then it would take off like crazy. The issue was the sensor in the tailshaft of the transmission would "see" the increased engine rpm but the truck wasnt moving at the speed the PCM was looking for at that rpm and it would kill the timing. B&G told me it was torque management. I dont know if that is the real name however. Maybe the torque management on the newer models works differently.
I told B&G about the problem I was having, they told me to test their theory, unplug the connector in the tailshaft and take it for a spin, they said you will know right away if it is torque management. "The trans wont shift properly, but it should be an animal off the line". Guess what, sure as hell that was the issue.

I never considered that my '98 had it, but I guess it did. It was a pig before I had Leach flash the PCM.

[dyno05]

I never considered that my '98 had it, but I guess it did. It was a pig before I had Leach flash the PCM.

I had Leach do my first flash in 98 or 99 also, but they did not remove it then. It wasnt till about 2004 when I changed the converter and noticed the severe problem. That Is when I had B&G remove it.

[grapejuice1998]

I had Leach do my first flash in 98 or 99 also, but they did not remove it then. It wasnt till about 2004 when I changed the converter and noticed the severe problem. That Is when I had B&G remove it.

Hell, mine might still have it activated.
I'm gonna unplug the speed sensor and see!!

[dyno05]

Hell, mine might still have it activated.
I'm gonna unplug the speed sensor and see!!



Try it out, but I see that you have gone a 1.60 60 foot, and that would be IMPOSSIBLE before I had it changed. It would only do a 2.0 before I had it removed and 1.7s after. I was wondering why my 60 seemed worse after I did a bunch of engine work and not better.

[grapejuice1998]

Try it out, but I see that you have gone a 1.60 60 foot, and that would be IMPOSSIBLE before I had it changed. It would only do a 2.0 before I had it removed and 1.7s after. I was wondering why my 60 seemed worse after I did a bunch of engine work and not better.

I've actually dipped a 1.58 60' before, but that was and still is on just a Mopar Performance PCM. The Leach PCM got fried during a converter swap gone bad. Pinched the CPS wires between the bell housing and the motor, but didn't find out until about 2 weeks later when it finally grounded out.

I didn't think torque management came in until about 2001, but you learn something new every day!

[dyno05]

I've actually dipped a 1.58 60' before, but that was and still is on just a Mopar Performance PCM. The Leach PCM got fried during a converter swap gone bad. Pinched the CPS wires between the bell housing and the motor, but didn't find out until about 2 weeks later when it finally grounded out.

I didn't think torque management came in until about 2001, but you learn something new every day!


Maybe what I had going on was not actually what they now call torque management, but I do know it was related to the sensor in the tail of the trans causing the havoc. B&G definitely said it was torque management. Who knows, but it leaves great now. My best 60 now is a 1.54 and about 1.58 average.

I pinched the crank sensor with the bellhousing once also and it grounded out 3 blocks later on my test drive. Easy fix, luckily I didnt fry the PCM.

[rhurley]

Holy SHIT!! this is exactly what my truck has been doing for a year! I have asked several times and no leads. But really this sounds identical to my truck. IT will not even spin the tires. in fact I CANT. i hit 3k rpms and it feels like a turbo...... So now im wwondering if this is it! I have SCT and it acts the same. no faster. does that mean i may have the "death flash"...... Or is my sct not working....

[dyno05]

Holy SHIT!! this is exactly what my truck has been doing for a year! I have asked several times and no leads. But really this sounds identical to my truck. IT will not even spin the tires. in fact I CANT. i hit 3k rpms and it feels like a turbo...... So now im wwondering if this is it! I have SCT and it acts the same. no faster. does that mean i may have the "death flash"...... Or is my sct not working....

I cant remember exactly, but I think the way to test it is unplug the sensor on the rear of the transmission and take it for a ride. It wont shift properly, but should nowbe a beast off the line. If that is the case, call B&G chrysler , explain the problem and they can take care of it for you.

[TurboBlew]

<coughbullshitcough>

I think any post from him is fictional!

If there ever was a tool of all toolz!

[rhurley]

is there anyway to know if my pcm has the DEATH TUNE!!!

[Warrior Poet]

I don't know if mine has it or not. I'll have to check when I get home. Best 60' I got out of her was 2.0 on the M&H's.... track prep was non exhistant though

[Five9Dak]

If you have an SCT tune it doesnt matter what the base program was. Sounds like something on your truck is still not right.

[Warrior Poet]

If you have an SCT tune it doesnt matter what the base program was. Sounds like something on your truck is still not right.
All I know is that when I got it, the dealer said it had a " Hypertech" tune on it. I can't prove it does or doesn't.

[grapejuice1998]

is there anyway to know if my pcm has the DEATH TUNE!!!

If you have SCT, there is no such thing.
The "death flash" was created to curb pinging in the stock motor, so all they did was pull some timing.

Did you install a cam at any point?
Have you done a compression test on it?

I'd wager something else isn't right.

[rhurley]

If you have SCT, there is no such thing.
The "death flash" was created to curb pinging in the stock motor, so all they did was pull some timing.

Did you install a cam at any point?
Have you done a compression test on it?

I'd wager something else isn't right.

Its stock top and bottom end. with the exception of the m1. I ran a compression test few months ago when it was still acting wierd. Had good comp on all cylinders.

everybody keeps saying its because the altitude but. ITS NOT. i am runnning the same with all the add ons as i did bone stock.

I cant even cut a 2.5 60' w/o nitrous.

I just have no clue what else it can be.

[Warrior Poet]

Its stock top and bottom end. with the exception of the m1. I ran a compression test few months ago when it was still acting wierd. Had good comp on all cylinders.

everybody keeps saying its because the altitude but. ITS NOT. i am runnning the same with all the add ons as i did bone stock.

I cant even cut a 2.5 60' w/o nitrous.

I just have no clue what else it can be.
Piss poor driving?

Sorry dude.. I had to put it out there. My 2.0 is kinda shitty too, and I duno if it's me or the truck. My last car I'd cut about a 1'8 on street tires so... yeah

[rhurley]

Piss poor driving?

Sorry dude.. I had to put it out there. My 2.0 is kinda shitty too, and I duno if it's me or the truck. My last car I'd cut about a 1'8 on street tires so... yeah


haha its not the driving. considering i cant spin the tires on slick pavment if i just punch it

[grapejuice1998]

haha its not the driving. considering i cant spin the tires on slick pavment if i just punch it

Does it still have a catalytic converter in the exhaust?

[rhurley]

Does it still have a catalytic converter in the exhaust?

Ya but it was a brand new magnaflow hi-flo. the whole exhaust was done about march a year ago

[grapejuice1998]

Ya but it was a brand new magnaflow hi-flo. the whole exhaust was done about march a year ago

Was it running like that before March a year ago?

[rhurley]

Was it running like that before March a year ago?

It has gotten worse with every add on ive done. well maybe not worse. but not better. the exhaust was the first thing i did and hasnt changed

[grapejuice1998]

It has gotten worse with every add on ive done. well maybe not worse. but not better. the exhaust was the first thing i did and hasnt changed

But was it running right before you put the exhaust on it?

The reason I ask is; cats are notorious for going bad quickly on even slightly modded motors. The fact that it hits a certain power band and then really takes of doesn't necessarily pan out with that theory though.

Just spitballin.

[rhurley]

But was it running right before you put the exhaust on it?

The reason I ask is; cats are notorious for going bad quickly on even slightly modded motors. The fact that it hits a certain power band and then really takes of doesn't necessarily pan out with that theory though.

Just spitballin.


Hahah Im so lost with this thing. It didnt run any different witht the exhaust.
I was convinced it was the transmission. that the converteris going out. but i just dont know!!!

[hobiesun]

Hmmmn. Got a 99 with a stock PCM I am guessing due to nitrous. Just bought it. But I was supprised that it didn't melt the tires. They are fatty Nitto's, but a slew of mods, not using the nitrous yet. It would burn if hammered from a dead stop but only for about 4 seconds or so. When I was an Auto Tech for dodge I remember these things burnin a lot more. ??? I will have to put the MP computer in it and check it out. Hmmn.

[rhurley]

Hmmmn. Got a 99 with a stock PCM I am guessing due to nitrous. Just bought it. But I was supprised that it didn't melt the tires. They are fatty Nitto's, but a slew of mods, not using the nitrous yet. It would burn if hammered from a dead stop but only for about 4 seconds or so. When I was an Auto Tech for dodge I remember these things burnin a lot more. ??? I will have to put the MP computer in it and check it out. Hmmn.

im sorry but that made little to no sense

[hobiesun]

im sorry but that made little to no sense

I will talk slower next time. Sorry.

[hobiesun]

Guess I should have put that it came with two computers a stocker and an MP. Just bought it Monday and figured out the stock computer was in it and not the MP because of the nitrous. Due to timing. I thought maybe the stock computer could possibly have tq management. I have driven stock ones when they were new and remembered them being able to smoke the shit out of the tires. My r/t however has pretty soft nittos and hooks up pretty well. Maybe the fatty nittos, maybe the stocker computer, IDK was basically all I was saying. I never realized they had some kind of traction control. :biggthumpup: