Kenne Bell Installed (Finally)

[ME111]

Have yet to turn the key on this for it needs a fresh SCT tune still but the hardware is now in place at least..

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/Kenne%20Bell/?albumview=slideshow

[jmaack727]

The inlet tube. More info.:biggthumpup:

[ME111]

The inlet tube. More info.:biggthumpup:

Inlet tube is one of those KB Blowzilla pieces. The CAI after the throttle body consists of an F&B Ram Ring followed by some homebrew madness. Still need to fab a heatshield but with the cool weather, I'm not worried about it at the moment. The filter is not ideal either so I'll upgrade to a 5" flanged K&N down the road or build a custom cold air box using 3 K&N flat panel filters. Undecided right now.

[jmaack727]

Yeah did you modify the tube? Since the TB is on the passenger side now.

[walight01]

is that a new or used kit? how much?

[ME111]

Yeah did you modify the tube? Since the TB is on the passenger side now.

Nope..that's how it mounts. Didn't have to drill the mounting holes at all but I did port the TB opening to match the 58mm TB.

[ME111]

is that a new or used kit? how much?

Got it used for 1200 shipped or so to include the blowzilla intake tube.

[ME111]

Got it used for 1200 shipped or so to include the blowzilla intake tube.

BTW...It's mounted on a ported "runnerless" kegger.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/BB%20Intakes/P3092610.jpg

[jmaack727]

include the blowzilla intake tube.

Oh never heard of that piece. I have only seen them moved to the driver side. Look forward to seeing more.

That was a steal on that blower.

[ME111]

Oh never heard of that piece. I have only seen them moved to the driver side. Look forward to seeing more.

That was a steal on that blower.

I got the regular intake tube that you're talking about as well but as far as I'm concerned it's scrap aluminum to me. You're right, it was a steal. Not much else to see though as it is what it is for now. Only immediate changes to this will be the belt routing and the intake setup. Come spring, I'll be adding a meth inj kit and depending on the budget and the performance level I'm at, ported eddies. Running ported stock heads on a stock bottom end with a blower cam right now.

[krs1r/t]

what size kenny bell 2.2 2.6 2.8

[ME111]

what size kenny bell 2.2 2.6 2.8

She's the baby 2.2

[1evilrt]

Looks good. Hope you get it running soon!

[ME111]

Looks good. Hope you get it running soon!

Thanks. It will be soon and I'll be sure to get a vid of a run down a back road.

[1evilrt]

Thanks. It will be soon and I'll be sure to get a vid of a run down a back road.
Tearing shit up?:burnout:

[grapejuice1998]

Have yet to turn the key on this for it needs a fresh SCT tune still but the hardware is now in place at least..

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/Kenne%20Bell/?albumview=slideshow

Nice work!!! That's how it should have been to start with, IMO. :biggthumpup:

[magnuma1]

Hey, it looks nice. Welcome to the blower club. :)

Mike

[ME111]

Found a pic of the inlet tube unmounted..

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/Inlet%20KB/PIC-0071.jpg

[ME111]

Hey, it looks nice. Welcome to the blower club. :)

Mike

Thank you kindly. No turning back now.:biggthumpup:

[ME111]

Nice work!!! That's how it should have been to start with, IMO. :biggthumpup:

Agreed!!! Shame I don't have the skilz to duplicate the inlet.

[WhiteRT]

Have yet to turn the key on this for it needs a fresh SCT tune still but the hardware is now in place at least..

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/Kenne%20Bell/?albumview=slideshow


Jim,

Did the linkage all work as advertised or did you have to monkey with it to get it to work?

Todd

[ME111]

Jim,

Did the linkage all work as advertised or did you have to monkey with it to get it to work?

Todd

Linkage and cables went on and work without mod. Just had to make sure the cables had enough slack to reach over there is all. Still need to find a bit more slack in the TV cable as it does fit and function but is too tight for my liking. I'm sure I just have something ziptied to it somewhere below.

[Five9Dak]

Agreed!!! Shame I don't have the skilz to duplicate the inlet.

Do you have the skills to properly document it so others can?

Even the three flange positions in three space would help alot for a new design.

[ME111]

Do you have the skills to properly document it so others can?

Even the three flange positions in three space would help alot for a new design.

Well let me rephrase that, I don't have the skilz to fab nor the desire to disassemble what I just put together..at least not in the immediate future.

Not meaning any harm but if whoever attempts to duplicate it can't use the existing inlet and my picture to use as a template/reference then IMHO that person has no biz attempting to fabricate it to begin with. It can even be improved upon by making the tube larger and the TB flange sized for a 4bbl TB as well if that's what is wanted. Two of the flange positions already exist on the stock inlet so all that's needed is to extend the tract for the TB flange just a few inches left of the compressor flange as in my pic. It doesn't have to be exact.

[ME111]

Couple more #s of boost to dial in and then it's cinema time..

TP MAP RPM AFR
74 1568 3761 16.6
76 1562 3704 14.2
76 1562 3724 15
63 1562 3794 17.1
70 1543 3704 13.4
73 1543 3692 13.6
55 1518 3844 17.5
67 1488 3708 13.2
49 1481 2455 13.7
53 1469 3905 17.5
53 1469 2437 12.4
51 1469 2455 13.1
51 1444 2306 13.5
54 1432 2269 13.1
55 1432 2398 11.8

[2k1AmberR/T]

Looks a little lean?

[ME111]

Looks a little lean?

You think Jason?

I let off as soon as I noticed and believe me my eyes and ears were scanning like a MoFo. Bitch doing this at dark so I'll pick back up in the am.

[2k1AmberR/T]

Hahaha. I'll be up your way this weekend, perhaps I'll stop by if you're not too busy and the weather is nice. How's the belt looking, any slipping at all? How much boost have you seen so far?

[ME111]

I'm very impressed with it so far for what it is. Pay good attention to the other columns and then vision what my dyno curve looked like when you were here last. I've only got a 10# pulley on this setup and according to that MAP reading I'm actually getting at least 14#s at %75 throttle and which is well below my peak TQ rpm. Do the math as I'm ecstatic right now.

[ME111]

Hahaha. I'll be up your way this weekend, perhaps I'll stop by if you're not too busy and the weather is nice. How's the belt looking, any slipping at all? How much boost have you seen so far?

My eyes hurt as they are with all the multitasking they've been doing. Gotta use math to figure it out to about 14#s. Have yet to nail the pedal but that will come soon and before the next rain forecast.

Ran across an old buddy over the weekend that's done a few custom 4 link with coilover installs and he said he'd hook me up. Should be less than 5 bills to do it all too and god knows I'm gonna need the traction. Looking at early spring to get that done though.

Def stop by but I'm still hoping to make it to the meet up north this weekend.

Belt is beautiful now that I had a couple more hands helping me musclefuck that thing on there the best it can be routed. Should even have enough adjustment for the 18# blower pulley/UD crank pulley if I choose to do that in the future with this particular belt.

[2k1AmberR/T]

Oh wow, alright. Well have fun up there, I'll see if I can swing by on Sunday then before I head on back to school. I'd go if I wasn't already happy with how my truck performs and it's my birthday so you can expect I'll be incoherent for a large portion of the weekend anyway.

[ME111]

Oh wow, alright. Well have fun up there, I'll see if I can swing by on Sunday then before I head on back to school. I'd go if I wasn't already happy with how my truck performs and it's my birthday so you can expect I'll be incoherent for a large portion of the weekend anyway.

Well try to be a lil sober when you come up and I'll let you run it around the I-95 block seeing as how it'll be your B'day and all. :biggthumpup:

[Five9Dak]

You're making me sooo jealous and temped to try to throw mine back on over thanksgiving break, but I know I shouldn't yet.

Good luck with it. I think it's a bit silly you're not roughing it in on the 6lb pulley though.

I don't know if the VE table in SCT is absolute or relative to MAP (sean will know what I mean) but the stock cam and Kenne Bell combo is pretty linear and easy to extrapolate fueling demands for if you get a good idea of how it performs at low boost levels.

[Five9Dak]

Well let me rephrase that, I don't have the skilz to fab nor the desire to disassemble what I just put together..at least not in the immediate future.

Not meaning any harm but if whoever attempts to duplicate it can't use the existing inlet and my picture to use as a template/reference then IMHO that person has no biz attempting to fabricate it to begin with. It can even be improved upon by making the tube larger and the TB flange sized for a 4bbl TB as well if that's what is wanted. Two of the flange positions already exist on the stock inlet so all that's needed is to extend the tract for the TB flange just a few inches left of the compressor flange as in my pic. It doesn't have to be exact.

It's possible that somebody would want one just the way "KB" intended.

I still intend to top mount mine, need a daily driver and or mock up engine first. The way yours is set up should have awesome performance per dollar appeal though, and I'm a little jealous. But I bought the kit because I wanted to see a KB between the valve covers, and I don't want to stop before that's a reality. The engineer in me will make it take as long as possible to analyze lots of stuff that probably doesn't need optimization....lol. Expect CFD analysis results to come with any manifolds I sell.

[ME111]

You're making me sooo jealous and temped to try to throw mine back on over thanksgiving break, but I know I shouldn't yet.

Good luck with it. I think it's a bit silly you're not roughing it in on the 6lb pulley though.

I don't know if the VE table in SCT is absolute or relative to MAP (sean will know what I mean) but the stock cam and Kenne Bell combo is pretty linear and easy to extrapolate fueling demands for if you get a good idea of how it performs at low boost levels.

Huh? My spark table for tuning this is very forgiving IMO with it winding down to 17 and then on top of that all the retard I'm allowing the stock base tune to pull as well. Probly end up being around 12 degrees or so at full boost for this tuning session. I'm taking the tune one MAP column at a time and I'm doing so in OPEN LOOP the whole way. There is no VE table for us PRP guys but that's not to say Sean has the ability to see and mod one with what he's got. No stock cam here btw and the only thing that is stock on my setup is the bottom end for the most part.

[ME111]

It's possible that somebody would want one just the way "KB" intended.

I still intend to top mount mine, need a daily driver and or mock up engine first. The way yours is set up should have awesome performance per dollar appeal though, and I'm a little jealous. But I bought the kit because I wanted to see a KB between the valve covers, and I don't want to stop before that's a reality. The engineer in me will make it take as long as possible to analyze lots of stuff that probably doesn't need optimization....lol. Expect CFD analysis results to come with any manifolds I sell.

If I could TIG, had the equipment, and a lot more patience.. I would've attempted just that as well but OHHHH all the additional headaches involved with that setup. I admire your vision and gumption but not the countless hours and brain cells you'll be burning up to see it through. Trying to keep this build as low budget as possible with what I have avail and so far it's not that bad at all money-wise. I still have a few cheap but effective tricks for it up my sleeve but they'll have to wait til next spring unfortunately.

[Five9Dak]

I mean TKO sean, not hemifever. Didn't realize you SCT guys weren't tuning a VE table.

I'm certainly interested to see the spark table you arrive at. Plan on finding MBT on a dyno later?

[mtlcafan79]

That seems a bit rediculous, and dangerous!, that you are not tuning a VE table. So what are you "tuning" then, just a spark table???

I'm not sure how the stock PCM takes its initial MAP readings. I do remember people were having problems at the begining with low map voltage key on issues on low atmospheric pressure days. I would assume that meant the PCM is taking a MAP reading at key on and using that as an atmospheric reference. I've only spent a few minutes looking at the SCT software and haven't really looked around.

[ME111]

That seems a bit rediculous, and dangerous!, that you are not tuning a VE table. So what are you "tuning" then, just a spark table???

I'm not sure how the stock PCM takes its initial MAP readings. I do remember people were having problems at the begining with low map voltage key on issues on low atmospheric pressure days. I would assume that meant the PCM is taking a MAP reading at key on and using that as an atmospheric reference. I've only spent a few minutes looking at the SCT software and haven't really looked around.

Running a 2BAR MAP sensor and within SCT there are Speed Density tables or values rather that define the MAP voltage limits and whatnot. I adjusted those accordingly. The ECM does indeed read the MAP voltage at Key On/Eng Off for reference. I used the stock MAP volt reference reading to baseline the pressure and adjusted this accordingly within the SCT MAP Normalizer table up to 392. Basically, I tweaked the MAP values by multiplying them by .94 up to and including the 392 pressure value. I then tweaked the fuel table at each MAP column to obtain the ideal AF ratio for each MAP value/rpm cell. The spark table entails a rising spark to 34deg up to the 392 MAP column and then it drops down from there to 17 at the max MAP column/rpm cell. Naturally, I tweaked other tables as well that affect the tune but I ain't getting into all that right now. When I get this dialed in well enough, I'll post up a tune comparison file that will show both the SCT supplied tables as they provided in their base tune along with the changes I made to those tables.

[Intense RT]

VE? You'd need a MAF to know how much air is taken in...we're speed density.:D It's calculated.

[mtlcafan79]

We both are used to the way megasquirt does things. They refer to the fuel tables as the VE table. They are MAP based too.

[Five9Dak]

Speed density usually needs to know the engine's VE. It calculates air mass with rpm, displacement, VE and MAP.

Anyway, the MAP axis of the jtec is in torr if I remember correctly Once it's been rescaled for a two bar, boost should be anything above 390ish, which would normally be 50kpa but it's hacked to actually be 100. Am I on the right track?

Here's what I'm basing my assumptions on, a stock timing table gleaned from an SCT screen shot, and re-oriented to be the same as most standalones, then converted to kPa

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/black99rt/99stockigntimingKPA.jpg

Since this is for 87 octane, I'd bet you could get away with the top row till about 4-5psi of boost on 93 octane.

This even half of this is OK for spark timing, provided you can re-bin. Can you? How many MAP rows are there in the fueling table?

I think I tried to start a thread to expose SCT more with screen shots and such and nobody bit. Still curious what a mopar pcm or equivalent performance bolt on spark table looks like for 93 octane.

[sunike32]

One day I hope to learn what all that means exactly :jester:

[ME111]

SCT's MAP Scaling allows for 9 values like those below that can be changed to better represent actual pressure but 787.7 Torr is the absolute highest you can make it. To represent a 2BAR you basically have to mentally treat these values as if you multiplied them by 2. My WB is setup to display the MAP voltage readings as 0 - 1575 to represent the 0 - 5v of the 2BAR which means I have to divide the map logging by 2 to pinpoint the SCT fuel MAP cell or entire column to tweak.

111.2
176.0
234.7
296.5
392.3
491.1
590.0
691.9
787.7

I screen captured every table within SCT earlier this month but the MS Word file is 50MB in size.

[Five9Dak]

Do you have access to a computer with adobe writer so you can export to pdf?

If you can split it into five, google groups allows 10mb uploads and 100mb storage for free. I can make a group for people interested.

Curious how you binned with just 9 to work with, seems like just enough make due.

[ME111]

Do you have access to a computer with adobe writer so you can export to pdf?

If you can split it into five, google groups allows 10mb uploads and 100mb storage for free. I can make a group for people interested.

Curious how you binned with just 9 to work with, seems like just enough make due.

I actually loaded it onto my verizon shared space so if you give me your email addy I'll share it with you.

BTW...having only 9 is not ideal at all but it is doable especially if you do it one column at a time. My cell value for max boost and max rpm currently has a pulsewidth around 22000 with an additional %16 being added via the PE Multiplier table. That will only come into play if I were to spin it up to 7K rpm with 15#s of boost and I just don't see me spinning it that high with the current setup.

[ThundeR/T]

Movie Movie Movie:)

[ME111]

Movie Movie Movie:)

All in due time but don't be holding your breath for I still have a wiring issue to beat down. Holidays and weather holding it up now.

[Five9Dak]

I actually loaded it onto my verizon shared space so if you give me your email addy I'll share it with you.



Black99rt@gmail.com thanks a lot.

These are stock screen caps, or with values that you have been working on?

I've been really beating around the bush with my MS wiring, because I want to do it the best way possible and not hack lots of stuff up. I realised I might be able to use the floptimizer plug as a pass through to the pcm and not need to alter any stock wiring.

[ME111]

Black99rt@gmail.com thanks a lot.

These are stock screen caps, or with values that you have been working on?

I've been really beating around the bush with my MS wiring, because I want to do it the best way possible and not hack lots of stuff up. I realised I might be able to use the floptimizer plug as a pass through to the pcm and not need to alter any stock wiring.

Just verified they are indeed from the SCT Baseline Tune that came with my PRP. Contains every table and default value that's included with it. It would be a miracle if it is found that any two SCT Baseline Tune's tables/values are identical...kinda like raindrops..LOL.

I got this R/T used and the more I look for the short in the wiring, the more retarded splices I find. Might be in the market for a new harness if I find much more of them.

BTW...sending you an invite to it now.

[Five9Dak]

Excellent, I'm curious to compare the base sct timing table to a stocker, as well as see everything available in the tuner. I'm glad somebody stepped up to eliminate some of the black magic when it comes to tuning these trucks. I had a lead on somebody with datalogs of a mopar computer, I was going to write a program to populate the timing table from the log so we can see what the mopar engineers did, and how it compares to aftermarket stuff.

I still might get an SCT tuner down the road for transmission stuff, if I don't get with a manual VB or a standalone controller.

I got the invite, its downloading now.

[vinsrt]

Excellent, I'm curious to compare the base sct timing table to a stocker, as well as see everything available in the tuner. I'm glad somebody stepped up to eliminate some of the black magic when it comes to tuning these trucks. I had a lead on somebody with datalogs of a mopar computer, I was going to write a program to populate the timing table from the log so we can see what the mopar engineers did, and how it compares to aftermarket stuff.

I still might get an SCT tuner down the road for transmission stuff, if I don't get with a manual VB or a standalone controller.

I got the invite, its downloading now.

For you and any others wh have used the Kenny Bell for the RT. Did you like the setup overall?? What kind of numbers do these put down on boost levels, say 6 and 9 PSI. I saw one on EBAY and want to learn a little about these superchargers, I have not looked into the roots type super chargers b4. Thanks!!

[Five9Dak]

The compressor style is the best for these trucks, there is no doubt about it. I think that 1.8 2.2 and 2.4L compressors were offered, mine is a 2.2L, I'd make sure it is at least a 2.2L. The case of the blower will have an autorotor PN on it, mx422 or mx424. The series and the displacement. The 2.2L is admittedly a bit small for a 5.9L, but the compressor is still capable of making over 600rwhp.

The kit is garbage, everything KB did is terrible. Throw all the electronics it comes with in the trash. (send me the optimizer pass through plug so I can use it to make a harness adapter for my MS :-) )It comes with chinsy aluminum blower supports that go to exhaust manifold studs, I re-made new brackets that go to the head accesory holes in the rear.

Autorotor twin screws have amazing efficiencies, until you restrict the intake, like KB did. The inlet it comes with flows something like 550cfm, pathetic. Solve this problem and get a real tune and it will scream, torque will go up everywhere, nearly the same amount across the board. This will make the rate your HP climbs with rpm increase drastically. The power is very easy to modulate and very predictable. It drives simply like it has a much larger engine. The engine will laugh at normal driving and beg to be pushed, you absolutely will need stickier tires to take advantage of the torque curve.

I don't have power numbers, I'm re-wiring my megasquirt to take control of a few more functions. I plan to dyno with the hardware KB supplies, then with my new top mount manifold. Both with optimized stand alone tunes. I'm only going to push 6 and 8psi on this long block before I rebuild, it's pretty old.

I never had it to the drag strip, I did autocross it a few times. It was an absolute blast to drive, I had a smile on my face that lasted until my next run through the whole heat.

Check out Corky Bell's book "Supercharged!" he focuses on twin screw compressors a lot.


@me111 thanks again for the word file, I've already transcribed some of the tables into excell. This should make taking over spark timing with the standalone a breeze.

[vinsrt]

The compressor style is the best for these trucks, there is no doubt about it. I think that 1.8 2.2 and 2.4L compressors were offered, mine is a 2.2L, I'd make sure it is at least a 2.2L. The case of the blower will have an autorotor PN on it, mx422 or mx424. The series and the displacement. The 2.2L is admittedly a bit small for a 5.9L, but the compressor is still capable of making over 600rwhp.

The kit is garbage, everything KB did is terrible. Throw all the electronics it comes with in the trash. (send me the optimizer pass through plug so I can use it to make a harness adapter for my MS :-) )It comes with chinsy aluminum blower supports that go to exhaust manifold studs, I re-made new brackets that go to the head accesory holes in the rear.

Autorotor twin screws have amazing efficiencies, until you restrict the intake, like KB did. The inlet it comes with flows something like 550cfm, pathetic. Solve this problem and get a real tune and it will scream, torque will go up everywhere, nearly the same amount across the board. This will make the rate your HP climbs with rpm increase drastically. The power is very easy to modulate and very predictable. It drives simply like it has a much larger engine. The engine will laugh at normal driving and beg to be pushed, you absolutely will need stickier tires to take advantage of the torque curve.

I don't have power numbers, I'm re-wiring my megasquirt to take control of a few more functions. I plan to dyno with the hardware KB supplies, then with my new top mount manifold. Both with optimized stand alone tunes. I'm only going to push 6 and 8psi on this long block before I rebuild, it's pretty old.

I never had it to the drag strip, I did autocross it a few times. It was an absolute blast to drive, I had a smile on my face that lasted until my next run through the whole heat.

Check out Corky Bell's book "Supercharged!" he focuses on twin screw compressors a lot.


@me111 thanks again for the word file, I've already transcribed some of the tables into excell. This should make taking over spark timing with the standalone a breeze.

Thanks man, I have to see how this goes, the guys starting bid was right under $2000, so I will have to see how much it goes up to. I will gladly send you anything that I do not use if you need it. I already have my truck tuned with h SCT so I will just take it back down and get it retuned. I have read in past threads that the stuff KB gives is not all that great. I think that the motor and everything will be fine, just had it built over the summer, along with the trans. Only thing that I would have to change is the gears. It runs out of gear now with the 4:56s, I guess I would put the stock ones back in.

Did you have to upgrade any of the fuel system... injectors, fuel pump etc?!? I am only gonna run the 6 or 9# pulley if I get it.

Thanks again!

Vinnie

[Five9Dak]

255lph in-tank walbro and w/e injectors your tuner recomends should be all the fuel system needs. You see a lot of centrifigul blower guys with booster pumps and other crazy stuff because their set ups started with FMUs running high pressures. If you keep the fuel pressure stock, it cut down on the work the pump(s) need to do drastically.

Oh, the 6psi pulley it ships with will make ~6.6psi until the manifold starts choking it on the top end. With the inlet improved, the boost should go up on the same pulley. Don't pulley it up with the original intake or your efficiency will tank further and charge temps will go through the roof.

[vinsrt]

255lph in-tank walbro and w/e injectors your tuner recomends should be all the fuel system needs. You see a lot of centrifigul blower guys with booster pumps and other crazy stuff because their set ups started with FMUs running high pressures. If you keep the fuel pressure stock, it cut down on the work the pump(s) need to do drastically.

Oh, the 6psi pulley it ships with will make ~6.6psi until the manifold starts choking it on the top end. With the inlet improved, the boost should go up on the same pulley. Don't pulley it up with the original intake or your efficiency will tank further and charge temps will go through the roof.

Yea I figured that I would have to drop the tank and put some injectors in, that is no problem. I have everything on the truck already, M-1, heads, longtubes, everything to make sure that she breaths nicely.

I just wanted to wait for a little while longer on putting a supercharger on my truck, but it is not every day that you see one of these things for sale. I might just have to bite the bullet and pick it up haha. Thanks again for all of the info!! Helped out a lot!! :D

[KTK00R/T]

Found a pic of the inlet tube unmounted..

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w223/ME111Blown/Inlet%20KB/PIC-0071.jpg

is there a vendor producing these?