Standalone or SCT ?

[jj malone]

How many guys are running the stand alone set up? how hard is it to tune? and whats all involved in the stand alone setup. i understand that the sct is the easiest, but how hard can the stand alone setup be? bottom line is which one is better and for what reasons?

[98Dak408]

How many guys are running the stand alone set up? how hard is it to tune? and whats all involved in the stand alone setup. i understand that the sct is the easiest, but how hard can the stand alone setup be? bottom line is which one is better and for what reasons?

I too am interested in the experiences of others in this regard.

[bfranzel]

:pancake:

[mtlcafan79]

What are your intentions power adder wise? N/A, boost, juice? Do you have emissions where you are?

[Intense RT]

I'd say if you're going to drop at least 30K total for the engine,chassis, etc. Then odds are you may be surpassing the ability of SCT. If not, SCT. With it, you'll keep all engine, trans, rear end, braking system sensors. Otherwise gut the truck and have a real race truck with all custom and or aftermarket pieces because without the pcm...it would require something to duplicate that function in certain instances. Thus the stand alone would be needed to retain efi. Not worth it to me unless I was making a partial living off racing the truck.

[dakfink]

as was stated; depends on what your after for power, you $$$ limits and what your going to use the truck for.

If you have Emissions and want to keep the truck a Street Driver your only option is SCT.

If you have no emissions then you can use which ever suits your needs and $$$.

SCT: Is about your cheapest option, About $375 for a Xcal Tuner or $1200 for the pro-race-package (PRP). Limits: if you run boost; anything over 15psi may not be able to be supported.

StandAlone: There are a few companies that actually have kits where you can Plug-N-Play a Standalone into the factory harness. I know KRC used to do a FAST system for $1800. That has probably gone up by now.

Anything past these 2 options you need to think long and hard and sit down with pen and paper and run the numbers before you go into the full standalone stuff.

I myself have a BS-3 (BigStuff-3) which was $3000 configured the way I needed it. BS-3 does have cheaper units down to about $1300-1500 IIRC?

There are pretty much 3 stand-alones most everyone uses. BS-3, FAST, and Accel-DFI.

All were created by the same man, John Meaney "The Godfather of Aftermarket EFI". Now he only has interest in BS-3. He sold the other 2 to their current owners.

Accel: Not much to brag about, it gets the job done. Not sure they have advanced much. They seem to have stuck with what worked for them.

FAST: Seems to have started finally catching back up with the times. They had a Lull period there where they didn't advance much in technology.

BS-3: Was and still is ahead of the other 2. Standard Equipment that is Options on the other 2 are; Dual WBO2, Sequential Injection, Staged Nitrous, Boost Control, OnBoard Data-logging and a few other things I can't remember.

What sold me with the BS-3 was:
1. User feed back of the drivability of the cars after they switched from 1 of the other 2 systems.
2. Dual WBO2: How are you going to tune a V-8 with 1 WBO2??
3. CAN Bus mod, that allows you to use the RacePak UltraDash with the ECM. You have 1 cable you plug-in from the ECM and the UltraDash replaces about $2000+ worth of Gauges for $695.

As far as ease of tuning?!?! The big difference is the ease of Navigating the Software more than the actual tuning. Like the 1 guy I used to work with. He said, "Tuning is Tuning, It's the navigating around the software that is the pain."

If you do go stand alone make sure you get a system that covers all your present and future needs. I learned this 1 the hard and expensive way.

I ordered the BS-3 and forgot to tell them to include the CAN-mod which was FREE if you ordered it in the beginning. Since I had forgotten and had to have mine upgraded it was an extra $300.

Like Intense RT said if you planning on dropping $20-30k+ on the truck a Standalone would be a wise choice. But if your looking to keep it a daily driver and have emissions. SCT would be your only choice.:goodluck:

[Five9Dak]

You all knew this was comming, but MSIIe can do a LOT for the money. Installed it's going to cost about what an SCT+ some dyno time will cost. The difference being you have WAY more resolution in your tune, closed loop wb02 (narrow bands are junk) Lots of extra features you won't need to buy seperate add on boxes for etc.

If you really care about sequential, it can now do that too. Conventional wisdom says that above 3k rpm, there isn't much advantage to sequential, that's what my converter stalls...... The MSII runs better everywhere compared to the mopar pcm.

Emissions compliant vehicles need not apply (but you could get it to pass if you can trick the pcm into thinking it still has injectors) Mine is emissions inspected, I just plug the mopar ecu in for a week and get stickers.

[dakfink]

You all knew this was comming, but MSIIe can do a LOT for the money. Installed it's going to cost about what an SCT+ some dyno time will cost. The difference being you have WAY more resolution in your tune, closed loop wb02 (narrow bands are junk) Lots of extra features you won't need to buy seperate add on boxes for etc.

If you really care about sequential, it can now do that too. Conventional wisdom says that above 3k rpm, there isn't much advantage to sequential, that's what my converter stalls...... The MSII runs better everywhere compared to the mopar pcm.

Emissions compliant vehicles need not apply (but you could get it to pass if you can trick the pcm into thinking it still has injectors) Mine is emissions inspected, I just plug the mopar ecu in for a week and get stickers.

OOOPS!!

I totally forgot about MS??

Could you elaborate on what it is capable of now? I know there has been a lot of work put into it.

Also I think what scares a lot of people away is the DIY aspect of the electronics. Terminating and Soldering is hard for some people.

Isn't there 1-2 companies offering it as an assembled kit now? Still for less than $900.

[krusty_R/T]

Just throwing this out there. It's possible to use AEM ems with these trucks as well, and there are a lot of shops that know how to tune it as well.

[Five9Dak]

Assembled MSIIs can be had for ~400 dollars, less used. Expect to spend about 100 dollars in supplies to build your harness. In a parallel installation, there actually isn't very much to wire. You'll need to add an intake air temp sensor. You can re-use the coolant sensor.

As it stands right now, MSIIe will get you 16x16 fuel tables, two methods of acceleration enrichment (you can one run or the other, or both), closed loop single or dual wideband, native capability for up to 21psi (more with MAP sensor swap) and absolutely most importantly, it is a native boost aware ecu that relies on physical laws for fueling calculations. That can't be said for all stock or aftermarket offerings. Pulsewidth tables are stone-age IMO.

I didn't even get into any of the "extra features"

If any of you are interested, check out the manuals.

Tuning software used to be terrible for MSII, but tunerstudio is an amazing piece of software, nicer than any other tuning suite I've seen for anything, standalone or SCT/HPtuners/etc

[Adobedude]

What about the IAT mod?

Lot's of good info, but I don't know what I'm reading.........LOL

[dakfink]

Just throwing this out there. It's possible to use AEM ems with these trucks as well, and there are a lot of shops that know how to tune it as well.

I forgot about them as well!!

I think a few people got a Bad-taste for them when they had promised a PnP system just like they had for the Viper. Then never followed through with it.

Stating that the Dakota Electronics were too hard to work with. A lot of people threw the BS flag. I agree if you can get a Viper which uses the same PCM and Data Bus to work, you can do the same with a Dakota.

BUT I will be using an AEM in my '91 Laser if I decide to fix it up.

[krusty_R/T]

BUT I will be using an AEM in my '91 Laser if I decide to fix it up.
PLEAAASE look long and hard at ECMlink (http://ecmlink.com). It is literally the shit for DSMs :jester:. You can tune with stock mafs, GM mafs, and even speed density now. Practically complete control of the vehicle, and you can datalog additional sensors as well. All for under 600 bones. You really can't go wrong with it :biggthumpup:

[dakfink]

PLEAAASE look long and hard at ECMlink (http://ecmlink.com). It is literally the shit for DSMs :jester:. You can tune with stock mafs, GM mafs, and even speed density now. Practically complete control of the vehicle, and you can datalog additional sensors as well. All for under 600 bones. You really can't go wrong with it :biggthumpup:

OK I will!! I knew it was out there!! But did not know it was Speed Density as well.

I have 1991 so I'm wondering If I need to send it ion for the CAP upgrade. (leaky Caps) and a Flashable Plug-In EEProm??

Looked it over??? I may go that route. Can they supply a PCM or do you know any place to get one new/Used/Rebuilt?

I usually look around DSMTalk and DSMtuner, But asking questions over there is like talking to a bunch of Know-It-Alls, that got their knowledge from Chang the hundai guy.

[krusty_R/T]

OK I will!! I knew it was out there!! But did not know it was Speed Density as well.

I have 1991 so I'm wondering If I need to send it ion for the CAP upgrade. (leaky Caps) and a Flashable Plug-In EEProm??

Looked it over??? I may go that route. Can they supply a PCM or do you know any place to get one new/Used/Rebuilt?

I usually look around DSMTalk and DSMtuner, But asking questions over there is like talking to a bunch of Know-It-Alls, that got their knowledge from Chang the hundai guy.
LMAO, I hear ya. I usually just hang around the ECMlink forum, but you can only get access after you actually get the product. As long as you know your computer has an eprom, you can send it in to Tom and Dave at ECMlink when you purchase, and they can socket it and repair any leaky caps you may have. It's fairly easy to tell if you have an eprom, just check out the P/N on the case, and if it has the E in the bottom corner, you should be good
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/atwaterc/1994%20Eagle%20Talon/ECU%20Pics/IMG_7948.jpg

Or just crack it open and its in the bottom right
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/atwaterc/1994%20Eagle%20Talon/ECU%20Pics/IMG_7971.jpg

91-94 ECUs can all work with each other, but stay away from 90s. They are quite a bit different.

As for buying one, DSMtuners still has the best classifieds, and you can also come up with a deal or two on ebay (I've sold a couple on there). There is a recently launched Mitsu classified forum, so maybe post in the WTB section http://www.mitsu-marketplace.com/index.php

:biggthumpup:

[Five9Dak]

What about the IAT mod?

Lot's of good info, but I don't know what I'm reading.........LOL

You need to add a GM IAT sensor. IAT is very important for the fueling equations, so you want it to be accurate. The coolant temp is only for warm up purposes and the like, so as long as you have the right ballpark, or tune around inaccuracies it won't matter.