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View Full Version : throttle body mountable water/air intercooler?



PeteRT
09-15-2009, 06:09 AM
any of you ever seen one? I'm toying with the design of my set-up, and want to intercool it but ive become an extreme minimalist in my engine bay. and i like to be just a little different than everyone else. i don't like the plumbing of air/air, and i don't like how air/water coolers sit off to the side and cover half of the motor.

the idea i have at the moment is to slice open a vortech air-hat ( the one that came with the vortech blower kits) and add the water setup inside. hood clearance isn't really an issue, i have probably 7 inches from the top of the TB to the bottom of the hood, so if i had to slice one of those airhats in half and add some material (make a sandwich out of it) to fit the innards i don't think it would be a big deal. i'd run the water lines right into the cavity under the plastic wiper cowl and have a tank/pump center console. if i got creative with the console and used a semi rigid container (think plastic bag in a garbage can, but better) i think you could fit about 3 gallons in there. is that enough?

before i really get serious about it, what do you guys think?
pete

bad360rt
09-15-2009, 07:12 AM
Duner's setup is the only thing I've seen that comes close to what you're describing, but his is still off to the side, but it's one piece with the airhat. Don't have any pics tho, maybe he'll see this and post some up.

Duner
09-15-2009, 01:03 PM
I've made a couple of different intercoolers like that.

Here's the first one I made for use with my Vortech.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICTop.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/CBE_Vortech.jpg

And then this second larger one I made for use with the turbo.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/BlackDogCBE.jpg

PeteRT
09-15-2009, 04:08 PM
thanks for the pics duner. i like that first one a lot. i assume when you say you "made it" you're not kidding... google doesn't reveal anything like it.

can you point me in a direction for it? id like to do the same thing, and incorporate the tb mount bolts like you have in #2. i don't have to use a vortech hat, it's just the only one i thought of off the top of my head that looked workable.
pete

grapejuice1998
09-15-2009, 10:31 PM
Wow Duner, that has really evolved nicely!! :biggthumpup:

Duner
09-16-2009, 12:49 AM
thanks for the pics duner. i like that first one a lot. i assume when you say you "made it" you're not kidding... google doesn't reveal anything like it.

can you point me in a direction for it? id like to do the same thing, and incorporate the tb mount bolts like you have in #2. i don't have to use a vortech hat, it's just the only one i thought of off the top of my head that looked workable.
pete

I used some finned tubing to run the coolant thru, then made end plates to weld them to and keep the water chamber separate from the air. A person would be able to replicate it fairly easily using a coupld of oil coolers with the turnarounds cut off and welded to the end plates. I made the water tank portion wrap around the air portion some, so it works as more of a heat sink drawing heat out of the TB and intake manifold as you drive.

Here's what it looked like when I was mocking it up with Styrene Plastic sheet instead of aluminum plate with the finned tubing. I was able to use an exacto knife to cut thru the plastic to speed up the mockup stage.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICstart3.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICstart4.jpg

Then I cut it all out of aluminum for final, taped it all together how I wanted it to end up and took it to the welders to have them weld it together for me.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICbuild2.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICbuild3.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICbuild4.jpg

I had push-on hose connectors welded to the water inlet and outlets. I used all 1/8" thick aluminum on all except for the base where it sets on the TB, where I used 3/8" thick. The problem with where the tubes are located over the top of the TB, is that you wouldn't be able to use all 4 of the TB mounting bolts like I did on the latest one. I made a bulletproof "Renzoni mount" to allow me to really crank down on the thing to keep the boost in.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/ICBottom.jpg

Here is the same intercooler when I first put the turbo on. Notice the small bolt in the corner of the intercooler/airhat. That's to bleed air out of the system when I initially fill it. Sorry for the "special effects" on this shot.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/BlackDogTurbo.jpg

I used the same kind of parts to make the IC for the 4.7 also.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m275/stirlgirl/DUNER/DunerTurboCBE.jpg

Duner
09-16-2009, 12:50 AM
Wow Duner, that has really evolved nicely!! :biggthumpup:

Thanks Alan! I've got way too many hours in all the parts compared to how unfinished they look. CBE for a reason I guess. LOL

sunike32
09-16-2009, 01:01 AM
Duner, that is some great work. Custom stuff like that is awesome to look at :biggthumpup:

bfranzel
09-16-2009, 01:16 AM
hey duner you do nice work. you should have a bunch mass produced and sell them.

Duner
09-16-2009, 01:38 AM
Thanks guys!

I tried looking into having the 4.7 turbo kits mass produced and couldn't get anybody to put a deposit down for anything. I completely understand that. I wouldn't give anybody any of my money unless they had a product ready to ship to me also.

The truth is that I can't afford the startup costs to mass produce anything, and I wouldn't want to rape people on the pricing - so the profit wouldn't come anywhere close to the up-front cash layout and risk. I'll just have to settle for posting up directions and answering questions.... and keep my day job.

bfranzel
09-16-2009, 01:51 AM
Thanks guys!

I tried looking into having the 4.7 turbo kits mass produced and couldn't get anybody to put a deposit down for anything. I completely understand that. I wouldn't give anybody any of my money unless they had a product ready to ship to me also.

The truth is that I can't afford the startup costs to mass produce anything, and I wouldn't want to rape people on the pricing - so the profit wouldn't come anywhere close to the up-front cash layout and risk. I'll just have to settle for posting up directions and answering questions.... and keep my day job.

lol @ keeping your day job. try to find cheaper ways (maybe cheaper material but durable) . and you will probably get a lot of sales. mabee make something that will fit your average s/c dodge truck. there are plenty of them out there. your pretty good at what you do. theres no reason you cant make money doing it!!!!!!!

PeteRT
09-16-2009, 01:54 AM
excellent work, indeed. where did you source the finned tubing from?
pete

Duner
09-16-2009, 02:12 AM
excellent work, indeed. where did you source the finned tubing from?
pete

The finned tubing I used for the original 2 intercoolers was bought from an aerospace machine shop. I'm not positive what the original use for them was, but they failed inspection and were scrap. I bought a box full of the stuff for $50.

I started looking at alternative materials to build more of them, and it looks like a couple of VW oil coolers could be "boxed" in the same way I used the tubing on mine. You would cut the "turnarounds" off the ends, box the sides and put a couple of them side by side. They look like they would be super-efficient.

http://www.sella.co.nz/images/thumb/0/3/0/4pr030-640x500.jpg

The only real difference between my original setup and this one, is that the tubing would remain connected by the fins and aid in assembly.

PeteRT
09-16-2009, 03:22 AM
what do you think the better way to do it is... have all the ends cut off, boxed into a resivoir & pump from one side to the other... or utilize that vw cooler and pump in one end and let it the coolant go through the bends?

i assume for a more uniform temperature on the inside, it would be better to do what you did... but do you think that's necessary?

looking at that vdub setup, it would be almost nothing to mount it in an aluminum box... just too easy to ignore.
pete

Duner
09-16-2009, 03:32 AM
what do you think the better way to do it is... have all the ends cut off, boxed into a resivoir & pump from one side to the other... or utilize that vw cooler and pump in one end and let it the coolant go through the bends?

i assume for a more uniform temperature on the inside, it would be better to do what you did... but do you think that's necessary?

looking at that vdub setup, it would be almost nothing to mount it in an aluminum box... just too easy to ignore.
pete

You would have to cut the ends off and allow the water to flow thru the tubes faster. The setup with all the bends allows the most heat transfer to take the most temp out of the water (oil), but we want the most temp taken out of the air going thru the fins - so the water needs to remain faster and colder.

I think it would be easy to box though.

PeteRT
09-16-2009, 03:56 AM
ahh, i get the concept now. i would assume it really doesn't matter what capacity the system has, as long as the coolant has enough time to cool before being returned to the 'hat'. the iceboxes i always see are never that big... maybe 2 or 3 gallons. with that said, it seems like pump choice is an important one. don't want the coolant to circulate too fast, or it can't cool in the cell, and don't want it too slow either, for obvious reasons. do you know what a good GPM rating is?

Duner
09-16-2009, 04:05 AM
ahh, i get the concept now. i would assume it really doesn't matter what capacity the system has, as long as the coolant has enough time to cool before being returned to the 'hat'. the iceboxes i always see are never that big... maybe 2 or 3 gallons. with that said, it seems like pump choice is an important one. don't want the coolant to circulate too fast, or it can't cool in the cell, and don't want it too slow either, for obvious reasons. do you know what a good GPM rating is?

I'm not sure what the Harbor Freight 12v pump I'm running is rated at officially, but it will pump my 4-gallon water reservoir (fuel cell) completely empty in 25 seconds. If I put a 20# bag of ice in the tank and fill the rest with water, I end up with 4 gallons of lukewarm water after a single pass.

For street driving I run the water thru my heater core and let the AC system cool the water while I drive.

Intense RT
09-16-2009, 05:39 AM
I'm not sure what the Harbor Freight 12v pump I'm running is rated at officially, but it will pump my 4-gallon water reservoir (fuel cell) completely empty in 25 seconds. If I put a 20# bag of ice in the tank and fill the rest with water, I end up with 4 gallons of lukewarm water after a single pass.

For street driving I run the water thru my heater core and let the AC system cool the water while I drive.That ac deal is a cool trick.:biggthumpup: