Attn: all 4 bbl t/b users

[grapejuice1998]

I have an older style 4 barrel throttle body that I would like to use on my 408. I have installed it before, but the PCM didn't like it one bit. I got a code for the TPS and MAP and a combination code for both of them not getting along. What am I doing wrong? I have tried a couple sets of sensors from different t/b's as well as the ones that came with it (the t/b was used on a Gen 2 360).

Thanks for any help you may offer!

[dakfink]

you need to reverse the wires on the TPS!!!

Pin 1 and 3 need to be swapped if you are using the sensor that came with it.

[Danno]

I have an older style 4 barrel throttle body that I would like to use on my 408. I have installed it before, but the PCM didn't like it one bit. I got a code for the TPS and MAP and a combination code for both of them not getting along. What am I doing wrong? I have tried a couple sets of sensors from different t/b's as well as the ones that came with it (the t/b was used on a Gen 2 360).

Thanks for any help you may offer!

Alan,

Flip the outside wires on the TPS. The factory TPS rotates in reverse of the 4bbl TPS.

Also on the TPS sensor, I think this is a common problem for the 4bbl TB's, as both of mine needed alot of work to get them right. Basically you have to slot the holes of the TPS so far that you almost cut all the way through the TPS. On Barney, I only have one bolt holding the TPS on, as I couldnt slot the other hole far enough to work without getting into vital parts in the TPS! :) Mine is rotated at least 40* if not closer to 60*... to give you an idea of how far they need to be slotted to just get into the .7 volt range on the TPS which is about where you need to be.

Im not sure why your MAP would be giving you problems. I havent had any issues with mine. It might just be a function of the PCM thinking the TPS is half open, and still seeing 14 inches of vacuum and thats raising a red flag.

Danno

[grapejuice1998]

Thanks for the replies y'all!
The thing that boggles me is; it was running on a pretty stout 11 second n/a Magnum 360 (Tom Moffat) before I got ahold of it. Is the Gen 2 wiring backwards from the Gen 3 (as suggested by the wire swap)?
Here's a couple pictures of it. I [I]think[I] it's a Mopar, but I'm not really sure.

[Danno]

Thanks for the replies y'all!
The thing that boggles me is; it was running on a pretty stout 11 second n/a Magnum 360 (Tom Moffat) before I got ahold of it. Is the Gen 2 wiring backwards from the Gen 3 (as suggested by the wire swap)?
Here's a couple pictures of it. I [I]think[I] it's a Mopar, but I'm not really sure.


Yup thats the same one I have.

The wires are swapped on the truck wiring harness. So it wouldnt transfer with the TB....

Danno

[grapejuice1998]

Yup thats the same one I have.

The wires are swapped on the truck wiring harness. So it wouldnt transfer with the TB....

Danno

That all makes sense now that I think of everything you've described. It did idle high, then if I even attempted to crack the throttle, it didn't like it at all.

So, I swap the wires, then slot the do-do out of the TPS and it should at least run at that point, right?
What about the linkage? It seems to be progressive, but adjustable. Should I tighten it up as much as possible?

[y2krtaf]

Thanks for the replies y'all!
The thing that boggles me is; it was running on a pretty stout 11 second n/a Magnum 360 (Tom Moffat) before I got ahold of it. Is the Gen 2 wiring backwards from the Gen 3 (as suggested by the wire swap)?
Here's a couple pictures of it. I [I]think[I] it's a Mopar, but I'm not really sure.

Alan,did you,or could you duplicate the bracket for the cables?That is the same tb I have,and would like to mount mine up.Let me know as I would really like to get my hands on one.
Gary

[grapejuice1998]

Alan,did you,or could you duplicate the bracket for the cables?That is the same tb I have,and would like to mount mine up.Let me know as I would really like to get my hands on one.
Gary

I plan to try and hack up/weld/adapt a stock bracket onto the 4 bbl t/b, but I would be glad to make 2 of whatever I end up with.

[y2krtaf]

I plan to try and hack up/weld/adapt a stock bracket onto the 4 bbl t/b, but I would be glad to make 2 of whatever I end up with.

Cool!
Let me know if you need some parts.I think I have 2 spare tb brackets that I could send your way for modification.

[rattler360]

dan what kinda price can you get me on a 4 barrel m1

[grapejuice1998]

Cool!
Let me know if you need some parts.I think I have 2 spare tb brackets that I could send your way for modification.

Go ahead and send them to me then.

10155 Plano Rd. #105
Dallas, TX 75238

[y2krtaf]

Go ahead and send them to me then.

10155 Plano Rd. #105
Dallas, TX 75238

I'll send them your way first thing monday morning Alan :biggthumpup:

[grapejuice1998]

I'll send them your way first thing monday morning Alan :biggthumpup:

Cool Gary, I'll keep a lookout for them!

[grapejuice1998]

OK, so I got it to run on the 4 bbl t/b by swapping the 2 outer wires on the TPS, but even if I tweak the TPS, I can seem to get it to idle down below 1,000 rpm. I have managed to hook up all 3 cables (throttle/TV/cruise) to the t/b and I have also hacked the bracket into 2 pieces so it will hold the cable mounts, but I still have to weld up a couple of mounting tabs to bolt them down in the proper place. It's coming along better than yesterday, but DAMN, what a mess this thing is to retro fit. I had to use a 1" spacer, along with the 1/2" Zex nitrous plate, but it's still not as tall as a 4 to 2bbl adapter with a billet t/b on it. Sweeeet.

I have an SCT on the truck, I wonder if I can idle it down with that?

So how many people out there are running a 4bbl t/b right now?

[bad360rt]

Hey Alan, any chance I could get you to make another bracket? I don't need cruise if it makes it any easier for ya. :)

[slammedR/T]

I used a coil bracket from a 3800 v-6 impala and did some "modification" to it
here is a pic http://www.dakota-durango.com/gallery/data/500/TB_left_side.jpg

For the TPS I used a 2000 ford crown vic 4.6 v-8 tps sensor and connector that I robbed from a bone yard.The sensor voltage for our trucks is maximum of .75 volts for idle and atleast 3.75 volts for WOT.The ford sensor has the same voltage range and turns the right direction for the 4-bbl TB I'll get pics of this this week end.

DEPUTY

[grapejuice1998]

Sweet setup! That's exactly how I hooked up the throttle and TV linkage. I think I can hook the cruise up to the little spring retainer piece on the other side of the throttle lever.
So, have you been able to adjust the TV cable to act right and kick the tranny down as it should?

[grapejuice1998]

Hey Alan, any chance I could get you to make another bracket? I don't need cruise if it makes it any easier for ya. :)

If I can get the other one to work out the same for Gary, I could make you one. I hesitate to just say "yes", not knowing how well my own will work out yet. Each one will probably be set up different, unless all of us use the same height of spacers. It looks like the Deputy has a 1" spacer and a 1/2-3/4" nitrous plate too, which is exactly how mine is setup. I'll post some pics of the progress later today.

[slammedR/T]

Sweet setup! That's exactly how I hooked up the throttle and TV linkage. I think I can hook the cruise up to the little spring retainer piece on the other side of the throttle lever.
So, have you been able to adjust the TV cable to act right and kick the tranny down as it should?

Yes, it has plenty of adjustment for me to set it right.


DEPUTY

[bad360rt]

If I can get the other one to work out the same for Gary, I could make you one. I hesitate to just say "yes", not knowing how well my own will work out yet. Each one will probably be set up different, unless all of us use the same height of spacers. It looks like the Deputy has a 1" spacer and a 1/2-3/4" nitrous plate too, which is exactly how mine is setup. I'll post some pics of the progress later today.

No problem, I've got a few weeks :) I know my Indy intake is higher than the M1, and with the 1" NOS plate, I shouldn't have any clearance issues.

[grapejuice1998]

No problem, I've got a few weeks :) I know my Indy intake is higher than the M1, and with the 1" NOS plate, I shouldn't have any clearance issues.

I'll tell ya what, just have that ol motor shipped to Dallas and I'll drop it in my R/T, build your linkages and break the motor in for you, practically for free.

:jester:

[BTLFED R/T]

I'll tell ya what, just have that ol motor shipped to Dallas and I'll drop it in my R/T, build your linkages and break the motor in for you, practically for free.

:jester:

What are friends for, right?! :jester:

[bad360rt]

I'll tell ya what, just have that ol motor shipped to Dallas and I'll drop it in my R/T, build your linkages and break the motor in for you, practically for free.

:jester:

Now that's what I love about this club, folks are always willing to go out of their way to help others! :jester:

[BTLFED R/T]

Now that's what I love about this club, folks are always willing to go out of their way to help others! :jester:

:jester:

[chiller2484]

:jester::jester:

you guys crack me up!

[grapejuice1998]

Now that's what I love about this club, folks are always willing to go out of their way to help others! :jester:

Just like the Government, I'm here to help! lol!:D

[slammedR/T]

I'll tell ya what, just have that ol motor shipped to Dallas and I'll drop it in my R/T, build your linkages and break the motor in for you, practically for free.

:jester:

Hell I'll bring the beer and haelp drop her in the truck for a test ride :jester:


DEPUTY

[grapejuice1998]

Another question:

There is a rubber and plastic vacuum line that runs from the evap/purge solenoid to the front of the t/b, next to the MAP. Is that lines function to supply vacuum to the evap/purge solenoid?

[Danno]

Hey Alan, any chance I could get you to make another bracket? I don't need cruise if it makes it any easier for ya. :)

Yer gettin brackets with yours foo! :)

Danno

[bad360rt]

Yer gettin brackets with yours foo! :)

Danno

Yeah, but I thought you said they needed to be replaced? If what's on there will work, then cool :)

Hey, Amy says cash the check already :nana: You ship it yet?

[grapejuice1998]

Yer gettin brackets with yours foo! :)

Danno

Hey Danno, did you have any trouble getting the 4 bbl t/b to idle down, even with the proper TPS voltages? Mine wants to idle above 1,000 if you rap the throttle, but you can get it back down to 650ish if you force the linkage. It's not a cable hanging it open either, it will do it without and cables attached.
Thanks!!

[grapejuice1998]

Hey Deputy, I noticed you have an extra spring on the throttle linkage. Did you need that to get the idle down, or what? I'm having trouble getting mine to idle without forcing the linkage closed.
Thanks!

http://www.dakota-durango.com/gallery/data/500/TB_left_side.jpg

[Danno]

Checks deposited, TB is shipped as of Monday.

:P

Danno

[Danno]

Checks deposited, TB is shipped as of Monday.

:P

Danno

[Danno]

There are a few adjustment screws on the TB that I played with quite a bit to get mine to finally fall into place correctly. And I dont remember the exact one that I used.

Danno

[bad360rt]

Checks deposited, TB is shipped as of Monday.

:P

Danno

Thanks bro! :biggthumpup:

[grapejuice1998]

There are a few adjustment screws on the TB that I played with quite a bit to get mine to finally fall into place correctly. And I dont remember the exact one that I used.

Danno

Just curious, why'd you sell the 4bbl?

Here's a picture of the way mine is currently set up.

[y2krtaf]

Just curious, why'd you sell the 4bbl?

Here's a picture of the way mine is currently set up.


Lookin good man:biggthumpup:

[Danno]

Just curious, why'd you sell the 4bbl?

Here's a picture of the way mine is currently set up.

I sold Vader, and the one I sold was my spare. I still have the one thats on Barney :)

Bracket looks Good Alan!

Danno

[slammedR/T]

Hey Deputy, I noticed you have an extra spring on the throttle linkage. Did you need that to get the idle down, or what? I'm having trouble getting mine to idle without forcing the linkage closed.
Thanks!

http://www.dakota-durango.com/gallery/data/500/TB_left_side.jpg

Yeah when cruising and let off pedal it would stick open alittle and idle high,added the spring to pull the throttle shut.It still dose it sometimes but not like it did with out the spring.I tried addjusting the linkage like Danno said and it did help but not like the spring did.


DEPUTY

[grapejuice1998]

Lookin good man:biggthumpup:

Thanks Gary!
I used such light weight material to mock them up, I just doubled it up and left it like that on mine. I'll make your set out of heavier material to start with, so it should come out a lot nicer.

Are you gonna run nitrous on yours? If not, I'll need to know exactly how your t/b will be set up on your manifold, so I can adjust for that.

[grapejuice1998]

I sold Vader, and the one I sold was my spare. I still have the one thats on Barney :)

Bracket looks Good Alan!

Danno

Ohhh, that makes sense then.
I still haven't test driven the truck yet, so hopefully the brackets will even work!
<fingers crossed>

[grapejuice1998]

Yeah when cruising and let off pedal it would stick open alittle and idle high,added the spring to pull the throttle shut.It still dose it sometimes but not like it did with out the spring.I tried addjusting the linkage like Danno said and it did help but not like the spring did.


DEPUTY

Did the spring cause the throttle to be much harder to push? I don't want to have to fight against it.

[slammedR/T]

Kinda I mean it adds some effort but nothing major,I mean kinda hard to explain.You can feel a difference with or with the added spring but its not excessive not gonna tire you out or anything.


DEPUTY

[y2krtaf]

Thanks Gary!
I used such light weight material to mock them up, I just doubled it up and left it like that on mine. I'll make your set out of heavier material to start with, so it should come out a lot nicer.

Are you gonna run nitrous on yours? If not, I'll need to know exactly how your t/b will be set up on your manifold, so I can adjust for that.

No nitrous,but it will be raised probably the same hight as yours to make sure every thing clears fuel rails etc.

[grapejuice1998]

Kinda I mean it adds some effort but nothing major,I mean kinda hard to explain.You can feel a difference with or with the added spring but its not excessive not gonna tire you out or anything.


DEPUTY


OK, that's all I needed to know then, thanks!!

[grapejuice1998]

No nitrous,but it will be raised probably the same hight as yours to make sure every thing clears fuel rails etc.

I thought about it and when the time comes, I will send you these brackets and if they work, I'll build another set and we'll swap them out. With gas prices climbing so high, I'm not going to be driving the R/T very often anymore.

[y2krtaf]

I thought about it and when the time comes, I will send you these brackets and if they work, I'll build another set and we'll swap them out. With gas prices climbing so high, I'm not going to be driving the R/T very often anymore.
No worries Alan,it will be a while before mines up and running so test fit and perfect away lol.I don't drive mine much either,its been sitting for the last 2 and a 1/2 years with 24,400 on the odo.I still have to get the pins for the tb to hook the cables to as well.I'm assuming they can be had from summit or jegs.
Mines purely a toy to tinker with when time and money permits.I get grief from freinds all the time because it sits in the garage under a cover lol.Every now and then I roll it out,start it and let it run for a bit(the neighbors love that)then put it back in ,dust it off,and cover it back up.

[grapejuice1998]

No worries Alan,it will be a while before mines up and running so test fit and perfect away lol.I don't drive mine much either,its been sitting for the last 2 and a 1/2 years with 24,400 on the odo.I still have to get the pins for the tb to hook the cables to as well.I'm assuming they can be had from summit or jegs.
Mines purely a toy to tinker with when time and money permits.I get grief from freinds all the time because it sits in the garage under a cover lol.Every now and then I roll it out,start it and let it run for a bit(the neighbors love that)then put it back in ,dust it off,and cover it back up.

I got the thing running and idling right this morning, then took it for a test drive. It's as lean as Jack Spratts dinner plate, but everything works as it should. It downshifts and upshifts on time, the cruise control works as it should and the throttle is perfect, even without an extra spring.

What you can do on yours is; run an 1 1/2" spacer and everything should work out exactly like mine did. When I remove mine to grind, bead blast and paint them, I'll knock out the other set for you.

Thanks for hookin me up with that extra bracket and the $!

[bad360rt]

Glad to hear she's running good Alan. Sounds like you're getting a good bit more air in there, time for a lil retune :biggthumpup:

[y2krtaf]

I got the thing running and idling right this morning, then took it for a test drive. It's as lean as Jack Spratts dinner plate, but everything works as it should. It downshifts and upshifts on time, the cruise control works as it should and the throttle is perfect, even without an extra spring.

What you can do on yours is; run an 1 1/2" spacer and everything should work out exactly like mine did. When I remove mine to grind, bead blast and paint them, I'll knock out the other set for you.

Thanks for hookin me up with that extra bracket and the $!

Sounds fantastic:woot:.I will be sure to run a 1 1/2" spacer,and many many thanks Alan for building this up.I truly appreciate it:biggthumpup: