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Trueblue R/T
01-17-2013, 05:39 PM
I know autox will be a new experience for many of you so here is a little insight that might help.

Tech

We will be checking the front end to make sure that the tires are in good shape. No excessive play in the front suspension and steering, and a brake check. Battery has to be secured, and if rear mounted has to have a cutoff switch that works. No loose items in the cab or bed. Seat belt in working order and you must have a helmet.

The race

Much like drag racing, if you are spinning the tires, you are slow. You will be allowed to walk the course but no practice runs. Passengers are allowed but must also wear a helmet. Watch some of our autox members run, vid's can be found in this section. You will see that smooth is the key. You will be assessed a 2 second penalty for every cone you hit. That's about it. Watch some of the vids, you will learn a lot!! Have fun see ya at the nat's!

Race tires

Tires with a tread wear rating of 200 or less actual racing slicks designed for turning corners nascar take off's, Hoosier racing tires, ect.. I have been asked about drag radials, I don't know if they will do you any good when you get them aired up to corner turning psi's around 50 psi or so. If you want to try them be my guest. I won't count them as a racing tire.

White Turbo
01-17-2013, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the info Barry!

How bout some explanation of "race tires".... You mentioned that race tires on all 4 corners bumps you up 2 classes?

And I assume that "race tires" on just 2 corners doesn't bump you up... Correct?

Duner
01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
How well do drag radials corner, if for instance I ran them just on the back with a set of 17" street tires on the front?

My truck won't get out of it's own way on street tires. I would simply be trying to drift the course and making a big smoke show.

I'm fairly certain that the cone-killing penalties would pretty much equal simply idling around the course like a sane person instead. But what fun would THAT be?:idunno:

Cheezie
01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
Any other specifics? Mandatory open ended lug nuts...?

Trueblue R/T
01-17-2013, 09:28 PM
Any other specifics? Mandatory open ended lug nuts...? open ended are not a necessity for this meet.

Trueblue R/T
01-17-2013, 09:43 PM
edited first post to better address race tires

Five9Dak
01-17-2013, 10:01 PM
I've autocrossed with DRs on the back aired up. First run of the set, boiled them off the starting line and they kept some heat in them for the other four runs (racing with a small group) I definitely had more traction exiting corners, and with the little weight on the back they didnt roll over. A few weekends of this with the KB wore out my LSD, lol. It's not nearly the advantage that having a real R compound on the front would give.

Jontoad
01-17-2013, 11:47 PM
FYI- scca uses under 200 treadwear for race tire or prepared classes, 200 and up for street touring and stock classes. Hence why there are so many tires right at 200 treadwear like the Nitto NT05s I run.

if you use 60 as your treadwear designation for race tires people could sneak in with R compounds that are rated at 100 treadwear like Nitto NT01's, ect....

RTchas
01-17-2013, 11:50 PM
FYI- scca uses under 200 treadwear for race tire or prepared classes, 200 and up for street touring and stock classes. Hence why there are so many tires right at 200 treadwear like the Nitto NT05s I run.

Soooooooo are you going to suit up the dakota and show us how it's done?:stirringthepot:

User
01-17-2013, 11:55 PM
Soooooooo are you going to suit up the dakota and show us how it's done?:stirringthepot:

Yeah no shit. It would be nice to have someone come out and blow everyone away that actually does this shit. I see myself just trying not to hit as many cones.

I think we need a trophy or something for most cones hit king.

Someone suggested this idea in the chat.

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 12:04 AM
FYI- scca uses under 200 treadwear for race tire or prepared classes, 200 and up for street touring and stock classes. Hence why there are so many tires right at 200 treadwear like the Nitto NT05s I run.

if you use 60 as your treadwear designation for race tires people could sneak in with R compounds that are rated at 100 treadwear like Nitto NT01's, ect....Yea I know I run a Kumho that is rated at 100 on the street.Figured I would give folks a break since this will be most first ever autox and the ones that know how already will be going for FTD and points toward king of the tracks award.

Jontoad
01-18-2013, 12:08 AM
Yeah no shit. It would be nice to have someone come out and blow everyone away that actually does this shit. I see myself just trying not to hit as many cones.

I think we need a trophy or something for most cones hit king.

Someone suggested this idea in the chat.


you guys worry to much. lol. just go out and have fun. you make one lap and you will be fine.

my truck is not in shape to autox that far from home. i can't afford to travel two weekends in a row also and I'll be at monster mopar weekend in Indiana to autox the week after the nats.

Jontoad
01-18-2013, 12:14 AM
Yea I know I run a Kumho that is rated at 100 on the street.Figured I would give folks a break since this will be most first ever autox and the ones that know how already will be going for FTD and points toward king of the tracks award.

well... the only problem is that actually does the opposite. people with prepared trucks will be killing beginners that are on street tires since they can sneak into that street tire class. raising the treadwear limit would actually be for the beginners advantage.

RTchas
01-18-2013, 12:17 AM
Yeah no shit. It would be nice to have someone come out and blow everyone away that actually does this shit. I see myself just trying not to hit as many cones.

I think we need a trophy or something for most cones hit king.

Someone suggested this idea in the chat.
:jester:No One can beat Wayne Laconis' all out smoke show donut fest in Cecil when he hit a few cones and said F-it and just blasted thru the coarse full throttle in his MP 380hp crate motor truck! The Scca Guy kicked him off the track and had a Baby right there on the coarse:jester: It was too Funny!

Yea I know I run a Kumho that is rated at 100 on the street.Figured I would give folks a break since this will be most first ever autox and the ones that know how already will be going for FTD and points toward king of the tracks award. Cheater!:nono:


you guys worry to much. lol. just go out and have fun. you make one lap and you will be fine.

my truck is not in shape to autox that far from home. i can't afford to travel two weekends in a row also and I'll be at monster mopar weekend in Indiana to autox the week after the nats.

That's a weak excuse did you read all the gimme's we have not to mention all the other freebies we will giveaway that didnt get on the list yet! bet that other event isn't as Cool :r/t smile:

Duner
01-18-2013, 12:29 AM
I'm sure not buying tires for the autocross event. If anything I'll just be on my nice and tall, extra sidewall to roll over onto, 255/60/17 Kumhos. It's 1 lap in a parking lot for crying out loud.

Jontoad
01-18-2013, 12:31 AM
I'm sure not buying tires for the autocross event. If anything I'll just be on my nice and tall, extra sidewall to roll over onto, 255/60/17 Kumhos. It's 1 lap in a parking lot for crying out loud.

that one lap might convince you to give up racing in a straight line. :drive: haha.

RTchas
01-18-2013, 12:32 AM
I'm sure not buying slicks for the drag race event. If anything I'll just be on my nice and tall, extra sidewall to roll over onto, 255/60/17 Kumhos. It's 1 pass in a few second's for crying out loud.

Fixed:jester:

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 12:59 AM
well... the only problem is that actually does the opposite. people with prepared trucks will be killing beginners that are on street tires since they can sneak into that street tire class. raising the treadwear limit would actually be for the beginners advantage.well any since I don't know of any R/T autoxer's who knows. A lot of the guys have hotchkiss but they seldom if ever autox so I am only counting on one maybe two trucks in our promod autox class I would not want to bump people like me into a pro class just because of my tire selection.:idunno:change my mind I am always open to things that will make our national meet better.here is how we currently have out autox classed broke down

AutoX Classes -
Stock - exactly what it says

heavy mod - modded 360, modded suspension, any street tires

outlaw - modded 360 with power-adder, 408's, suspension mods

pro mod - any motor, any suspension, any tire [ race tires]

NOTE- race tires on all 4 corners bump you 2 classes

Duner
01-18-2013, 01:09 AM
that one lap might convince you to give up racing in a straight line. :drive: haha.

I've never auto crossed.... But for years and years I tormented the Corvette club on open track days with my DD Camaros. I generally posted lap times better than 3/4 of the "race-prepped" class of 'Vettes on my normal street tires. They hated me. So, yeah, I am capable of hustling stuff around a track. Of course, if the track is very tight and technical - I'm certainly going to be out of my element.

And about that racing in a straight line... I sure have to keep my elbows up a whole bunch on a pass. I'm not sure it qualifies as "straight". :jester:

RTchas
01-18-2013, 01:12 AM
well any since I don't know of any R/T autoxer's who knows. A lot of the guys have hotchkiss but they seldom if ever autox so I am only counting on one maybe two trucks in our promod autox class I would not want to bump people like me into a pro class just because of my tire selection.:idunno:change my mind I am always open to things that will make our national meet better.here is how we currently have out autox classed broke down

AutoX Classes -
Stock - exactly what it says

heavy mod - modded 360, modded suspension, any street tires

outlaw - modded 360 with power-adder, 408's, suspension mods

pro mod - any motor, any suspension, any tire [ race tires]

NOTE- race tires on all 4 corners bump you 2 classes

Barry to make it fair for most guys running a street tire shouldn't we do SCCA tread wear #s :idunno: That makes it clear as to what a "race tire" is?

In the 2 Nat's with autox Ive attended only Mike Thomas had 4 race tires swapped for autox

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 01:17 AM
Yeah no shit. It would be nice to have someone come out and blow everyone away that actually does this shit. I see myself just trying not to hit as many cones.

I think we need a trophy or something for most cones hit king.

Someone suggested this idea in the chat.YEA we will have a conehead hat that they can wear all during the banquet.:jester:

BlakDak71
01-18-2013, 01:37 AM
I still have no idea what class I'd be in for autocross. Rocking some good old fashioned 255/60/17 Goodyears right now...not sure what I'll be on by then. Stock suspension.

sunike32
01-18-2013, 01:48 AM
I still have no idea what class I'd be in for autocross. Rocking some good old fashioned 255/60/17 Goodyears right now...not sure what I'll be on by then. Stock suspension.

I'd say Outlaw based on your sig

BlakDak71
01-18-2013, 01:55 AM
If that's the case then I'm buying stickies lol

White Turbo
01-18-2013, 01:58 AM
I'd say Outlaw based on your sig

With a 318?:idunno:

BlakDak71
01-18-2013, 02:00 AM
With a 318?:idunno:

The Bastard truck strikes again!

White Turbo
01-18-2013, 02:06 AM
The Bastard truck strikes again!

You are the "odd" child...
:drums1::jester:

BlakDak71
01-18-2013, 02:07 AM
You are the "odd" child...
:drums1::jester:

I get my own special class.

White Turbo
01-18-2013, 02:11 AM
I get my own special class.

We'll call it the "GREG" class.:biggthumpup:

sunike32
01-18-2013, 02:20 AM
Lol, that or Pro Mod. Rough sledding for the bastard truck, but I'm sure fun will be had regardless of class!

Duner
01-18-2013, 02:23 AM
Fixed:jester:

Lol... Well I wouldn't buy slicks for just a single pass either!

Just call me cheap.

moparsz
01-18-2013, 03:05 AM
well any since I don't know of any R/T autoxer's who knows. A lot of the guys have hotchkiss but they seldom if ever autox so I am only counting on one maybe two trucks in our promod autox class I would not want to bump people like me into a pro class just because of my tire selection.:idunno:change my mind I am always open to things that will make our national meet better.here is how we currently have out autox classed broke down

AutoX Classes -
Stock - exactly what it says

heavy mod - modded 360, modded suspension, any street tires

outlaw - modded 360 with power-adder, 408's, suspension mods

pro mod - any motor, any suspension, any tire [ race tires]

NOTE- race tires on all 4 corners bump you 2 classes

Does that go for non r/t trucks and durangos too

Duner
01-18-2013, 03:58 AM
I'm prolly going to be the slowest guy in outlaw.

That's OK with me. It'll still be fun.

RTchas
01-18-2013, 09:37 AM
Barry to make it fair for most guys running a street tire shouldn't we do SCCA tread wear #s :idunno: That makes it clear as to what a "race tire" is?

In the 2 Nat's with autox Ive attended only Mike Thomas had 4 race tires swapped for autox

Bump
:idunno:

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 02:45 PM
Bump
:idunno:

don't bump me I'm old and might fall down:finger: Seriously I would like more input from the members before i decide.

BluRT00
01-18-2013, 05:24 PM
I'm prolly going to be the slowest guy in outlaw.

That's OK with me. It'll still be fun.

I dunno bout that? I got a cc that now hates my bfgoodrich kdws at any speed. Small course will kill me.

Duner
01-18-2013, 05:54 PM
I dunno bout that? I got a cc that now hates my bfgoodrich kdws at any speed. Small course will kill me.

I'm still on the fence about even putting the sway bars back on it. It may be a wallowing beast.

Danno
01-18-2013, 06:09 PM
Barry to make it fair for most guys running a street tire shouldn't we do SCCA tread wear #s :idunno: That makes it clear as to what a "race tire" is?

In the 2 Nat's with autox Ive attended only Mike Thomas had 4 race tires swapped for autox

Ahem,

I did for the 05 Nats here in Bremerton too. Its what gave me the edge to take the King of Street title that year in Barney....

Danno

Duner
01-18-2013, 06:11 PM
Ahem,

I did for the 05 Nats here in Bremerton too. Its what gave me the edge to take the King of Street title that year in Barney....

Danno

I thought it was home-court advantage.... you already knew where each and every pebble was on the course. :biggthumpup:

Danno
01-18-2013, 06:23 PM
don't bump me I'm old and might fall down:finger: Seriously I would like more input from the members before i decide.


IMHO.....

Engine size and power adders should not factor into the equation at all. This isnt a roadcourse where power out of the corners and down a straight-a-way will matter. In fact some of these guys will be at a distinct DISADVANTAGE with the extra torque and power, because they will not be able to use that power effectively on an AutoX course.

Limit the classes to suspension/tire mods only.

Stock would be stock size rims, stock height, any tire other than stickies ( 200 rating sounds like a good break point to use IMO )

Pro would be any lowering or upgraded sways or any rim larger than 17's.

Pro Mod would be Full hotchkis type kits, adjustable shocks, X braces etc

Outlaw would be for the full boogey machines with the lower than 200 rating tires.

Keep the lower than 200 tread rating bumps you 2 classes rule. That works.

So my wifes truck that I am bringing has full hotchkis, QA1's, X brace, 20's with Nitto NT555's. That would put her truck in the promod class, even though its just a cammed 360 w/ stock heads.

Engine power means so little in an AutoX, especially to 99.9% of the drivers that will be at this meet. Few if any will know how to take advantage of that extra power and get it down in a smaller technical type course. Even with drag radials on the rear, and AutoX style nittos on the front of Barney, I was able to blow the rears off at will in Barney.... and what was just NA... so people with blowers and turbos are gonna be really hurting, even WITH stickies.
Of course, IMO only.

Danno

Danno
01-18-2013, 06:30 PM
I thought it was home-court advantage.... you already knew where each and every pebble was on the course. :biggthumpup:


Well that, and I knew how to psyche Lloyd out :) And Josh got in a rush and didnt bring all the hardware for his Hotchkis sways. It was a VERY close race between the 3 of us really.

It pays to have had to wrench on broken racecars in the middle of a race ;) Helps with the mental picture, AND the preparedness game as well.

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 07:56 PM
I am trying to keep what we call the 4 autox classes in line with with our drag classed.Yes some will find that their motor mods will be a challenge,some will learn the definition of turbo lag,push and over-steer. Keep the input comimg.Danno your 555's have a TWR of 300 so you would still be in heavy mod RC with Gin's truck.


Treadwear

300
Traction

A
Temperature

A

Danno
01-18-2013, 08:07 PM
I am trying to keep what we call the 4 autox classes in line with with our drag classed.Yes some will find that their motor mods will be a challenge,some will learn the definition of turbo lag,push and over-steer. Keep the input comimg.Danno your 555's have a TWR of 300 so you would still be in heavy mod RC with Gin's truck.


Treadwear

300
Traction

A
Temperature

A

Just curious, but is there a specific reason for trying to keep the classes the same? Just to keep it simple? Or are there going to be class specific awards for the best drag/autox racers combined in each class?

Otherwise, IMO of course :), it just adds more confusion.

FWIW, someone with a bone stock 360 and a full hotchkiss/QA/Xbrace setup on decent tires is going to absolutely destroy a blown 408 with the same setup on stickies in the AutoX. Why? You cant put the power down, so the power ( which is how the drag classes are setup ) means little to nothing in the AutoX. Class them based on something that DOES matter in AutoX, handling changes :)

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the logic of how the classes are setup is all.

Edit: I dont care what class I am placed in FWIW. Whatever class I am in is the class I am in, I am just trying to find a way to make the competiveness more even for the AutoX. I think the way it is set up now, someone in the Stock class is going to make the Outlaw class look silly ;)

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 08:42 PM
ok here is what is going to be rewarded in autox 1 plaque for each of the four classes in RC and CC plus 1 FTD award.The classes were set up to be simple and close to where people would be in their drag classes.That way every one would have a good idea who they were racing and what class they were in.You are absolutely correct my friend classes were not set with regard for what would make the fastest autoxer except promod and there you just might see some trucks with the suspension, tires and driver skill to handle the big hp numbers. Now back to where I will be drawing the line on what is a race tire. Need some more input guys!!

White Turbo
01-18-2013, 09:08 PM
There's a spot on the registration form for filling out your auto-x class.
If we change the classes now, we have to start over on the meet spreadsheet.

RTchas
01-18-2013, 09:09 PM
I'm with Danno on this, engine mods will do little to nothing on a small course.That said the classes might be off in that a fully modded 408 truck with street tires isn't going to touch a stock engine or light mod engine with 200 rated tires and Hotckiss.

I like what was said about SCCA going off of tire rating and then suspension mods and THEN engine/power adder

RTchas
01-18-2013, 09:10 PM
There's a spot on the registration form for filling out your auto-x class.
If we change the classes now, we have to start over on the meet spreadsheet.

Minor details, I will check every rig at track to class correctly if needed:biggthumpup:

Danno
01-18-2013, 09:11 PM
There's a spot on the registration form for filling out your auto-x class.
If we change the classes now, we have to start over on the meet spreadsheet.

Ah!

Next meet then :)

White Turbo
01-18-2013, 09:18 PM
Minor details, I will check every rig at track to class correctly if needed:biggthumpup:

Okey Dokey !

Trueblue R/T
01-18-2013, 10:21 PM
Ok can't fart around with this thing forever. Treadwear rating of 200 or less is a race tire.End of story!! LOL what's next on the agenda??

Duner
01-18-2013, 10:23 PM
Ok can't fart around with this thing forever. Treadwear rating of 200 or less is a race tire.End of story!! LOL what's next on the agenda??

Just give me the trophy for it... and make everybody else chase me to get it!:biggthumpup:

Jontoad
01-19-2013, 02:59 AM
Ok can't fart around with this thing forever. Treadwear rating of 200 or less is a race tire.End of story!! LOL what's next on the agenda??

should be UNDER 200 is a race tire. 200 itself should not be a race tire. lol. sorry. carry on.

like i said there are a lot of street tires manufactured with 200 treadwear rating itself due to SCCA guidelines.

RTchas
01-19-2013, 03:04 AM
should be UNDER 200 is a race tire. 200 itself should not be a race tire. lol. sorry. carry on.

like i said there are a lot of street tires manufactured with 200 treadwear rating itself due to SCCA guidelines.

Trouble maker!:jester::stirringthepot:

Jontoad
01-19-2013, 03:15 AM
Trouble maker!:jester::stirringthepot:

sorry. lol. just to name a few 200 tread wear tires off the top of my head...

falken 615
nitto NT05
bfg gforce NT
dunlop star spec

gbeaird
01-30-2013, 04:17 PM
<SNIP>

Tech

We will be checking the front end to make sure that the tires are in good shape. No excessive play in the front suspension and steering, and a brake check. Battery has to be secured, and if rear mounted has to have a cutoff switch that works. No loose items in the cab or bed. Seat belt in working order and you must have a helmet.

<SNIP>

Is the autocross event going to be run by an SCCA chapter, or put on by the R/T club? I ask because if it's run by the SCCA, not just any helmet will work. Their insurance will require a helmet with a Snell SA2000 or M2000 or newer rating:

From the SCCA 2012 Solo Rule book:

All helmets meeting the latest or two immediately preceding Snell
Foundation standards (SA2010, SAH2010, SA2005, SA2000, M2010,
M2005, M2000, K2010, K2005, K98), SFI standards 31.1, 41.1, 31.1A,
31.2A, 41.1A, 41.2A or British spec BS6658-85 type A/FR are acceptable.

I'm not sure it's been an issue before, but wanted to make sure people don't show up with any old helmet. Our Region puts on such events, and usually have loaner helmets that meet the standards. I'm not sure about other Regions. Again, if this is put on by the R/T club, then never mind. :-)

matt360r/t
02-01-2013, 03:53 AM
iirc AutoX is being put on by the scca and i could swore either in this thread or the main NATS thread barry posted loner helmets would be availible ???

but ive been wrong before

gbeaird
02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
That's cool, and if it's a local SCCA region putting the event on, that's probably the way it will be run. I just wanted to make sure there were no surprises, as it didn't appear to be specifically-mentioned in this thread. Sounds great.

Trueblue R/T
02-01-2013, 04:32 PM
To be clear SCCA will be helping us out by setting up the cones and handling timing. However this is not a SCCA sanctioned event and I have procured insurance separately from SCCA but to their standards.

Trueblue R/T
02-01-2013, 04:34 PM
That's cool, and if it's a local SCCA region putting the event on, that's probably the way it will be run. I just wanted to make sure there were no surprises, as it didn't appear to be specifically-mentioned in this thread. Sounds great. Are you nudging a little bit closer to racing with us???

Kotta390
02-18-2013, 02:50 AM
So who is going to be the slowest out of the tin cans????

Trueblue R/T
02-18-2013, 03:38 AM
I am not for sure but I think Dave is running a locker which will give him a slight edge.However you are on a 9" which means all you have to do is swap the pig and the advantage could swing back to you and that is only a 15 minute job for a couple of guys who know what they are doing maybe less.

Kotta390
02-18-2013, 01:08 PM
I am not for sure but I think Dave is running a locker which will give him a slight edge.However you are on a 9" which means all you have to do is swap the pig and the advantage could swing back to you and that is only a 15 minute job for a couple of guys who know what they are doing maybe less.

This is true, but I haven't actually planned on taking corners with this truck. So the full spool will have to stay. I'm still a poor ole dakota owner

Five9Dak
02-18-2013, 01:52 PM
I'm going for a sunday drive, should have monoleafs on by then.

Duner
02-18-2013, 01:55 PM
I'm going for a sunday drive, should have monoleafs on by then.

I usually drive pretty rowdy on Sunday's...

Just sayin'. :biggthumpup:

BluRT00
02-18-2013, 09:12 PM
Ass out sideways gunning for every cone I see. No show truck here! :jester:

blk00rt
03-05-2013, 02:32 AM
I have a feeling i will get the most penalties..I want to wear the cone hat at the banquet..

KotaRT
04-23-2013, 03:52 PM
So who is going to be the slowest out of the tin cans????

Me.

JOEKOTA R/T
06-09-2013, 03:37 AM
Hey thanks for all this info. Im trying to put together a show/autocross fund raiser in the Charlotte area for cancer research and hospice. All the input I can gather helps.

Connery23
06-09-2013, 04:40 AM
Hey thanks for all this info. Im trying to put together a show/autocross fund raiser in the Charlotte area for cancer research and hospice. All the input I can gather helps.

Don't take anything from this op fool. He has caused so much heart ache for many. Promises made but not kept.