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View Full Version : Stock 5.9 w/cam, M1, shorty headers, SCT



Filthy Filbert
08-31-2012, 09:55 PM
Well, a new sub forum!!

Here's my entry

Stock 5.9 with just a cam, M1, shorty (crappy) headers, and an SCT tune


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/Dakota%20RT%20forum/9B9FD88D-4F0D-4215-A891-C01DD3C0CEAF-671-00000234620F7BA9.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/Dakota%20RT%20forum/37A8E06D-2EEA-4DB5-BDBF-EB6A61385213-671-0000023468EDE34F.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/Dakota%20RT%20forum/43CB23E8-166B-4482-9D44-43E3E9635A62-671-000002346D6FAD59.jpg

grapejuice1998
08-31-2012, 11:34 PM
And a manual transmission.

wyotech_cuda440
08-31-2012, 11:41 PM
And a manual transmission.

Quick google search is saying that the NV3500 is usually around 12-13% parasitic loss, compared to the 25% that is normal for a 46RE. That trans is really helping out, I wish they would have just offered a manual R/T from the factory.

That's some good numbers anyway for stock heads :biggthumpup:

yellowdak360
09-01-2012, 12:05 AM
Well, a new sub forum!!

Here's my entry

Stock 5.9 with just a cam, M1, shorty (crappy) headers, and an SCT tune


Tom, what is the exhaust set up after the shortys, 2bbl or 4bbl and cam specs?


Quick google search is saying that the NV3500 is usually around 12-13% parasitic loss, compared to the 25% that is normal for a 46RE.

So if it is 285 with the nv3500 how many hp would that be to the wheels with a 46re? Sorry i suck at math! I want to do a real mild build on a tight budget after i get a beater, i plan to use the stock heads and manifolds for now :fml:

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 01:14 AM
Tom, what is the exhaust set up after the shortys, 2bbl or 4bbl and cam specs?



So if it is 285 with the nv3500 how many hp would that be to the wheels with a 46re? Sorry i suck at math! I want to do a real mild build on a tight budget after i get a beater, i plan to use the stock heads and manifolds for now :fml:

Y-pipe that comes off the headers is the same size as the header collector (2.25"?). Then into a single 3" system. Cam is a Hughes whiplash. 222/228 @.050, 107 LSA installed at 102 and .544 lift

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 01:20 AM
And a manual transmission.

Yes, as you love pointing out, I do in fact have a manual transmission. It's also 2wd, has 3.92 gears, and my wheels/tires are 28" tall and weigh 50lbs:idunno:

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 01:33 AM
Tom, what is the exhaust set up after the shortys, 2bbl or 4bbl and cam specs?



So if it is 285 with the nv3500 how many hp would that be to the wheels with a 46re? Sorry i suck at math! I want to do a real mild build on a tight budget after i get a beater, i plan to use the stock heads and manifolds for now :fml:


My math says that would be about 240-245 rwhp with the auto. Or about 50 hp over stock

I always thought the stock heads flowing an average of 200 cfm would support 400 crank hp. But my numbers are considerably lower than that. Indicating only about 350-360 crank hp once you account for losses from exhaust (crappy headers) and the losses from driving the accessories

grapejuice1998
09-01-2012, 02:59 AM
Yes, as you love pointing out, I do in fact have a manual transmission. It's also 2wd, has 3.92 gears, and my wheels/tires are 28" tall and weigh 50lbs:idunno:

I don't love pointing it out, but it ought to be pointed out since you listed your mods. Somebody might think they can get that kind of HP with a 46re and those mods. Especially since that's what an R/T came with.

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 03:20 AM
Ok.fair enough. But the manual isn't a mod:jester:

And it's like, the 2nd or3rd time you've responded to a post about my performance with "and a manual transmission". Like that one thread about ET or 60' awhile back, and it seems like there was another thread, just don't remember the topic now

yellowdak360
09-01-2012, 06:49 AM
Y-pipe that comes off the headers is the same size as the header collector (2.25"?). Then into a single 3" system. Cam is a Hughes whiplash. 222/228 @.050, 107 LSA installed at 102 and .544 lift

Was it a 4bbl or 2bbl M1 and what should i do with my exhaust? I plan to keep manifolds for now and its running through a stock y pipe with no cat going to a 2.25" single in and dual out muffler.

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 09:52 AM
Well, a new sub forum!!

Here's my entry

Stock 5.9 with just a cam, M1, shorty (crappy) headers, and an SCT tune

A stock 5.9 is as it came from the factory. How do you justify calling this a 'stock 5.9'? :idunno:

skunkxracing
09-01-2012, 11:27 AM
The stock heads should support 400hp, but it would need a lot more cam than that. That's the problem with stock heads, they don't flow well enough to fill the cylinder so you have to hang the valve open a lot longer to compensate.

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 11:38 AM
A stock 5.9 is as it came from the factory. How do you justify calling this a 'stock 5.9'? :idunno:

Uh.... Stock block with stock bore and no machine work, stock crank stock rods stock low compression pistons stock heads...:idunno:

Sounds pretty stock to me, other than the intake, cam, headers, and SCT.... Oh, wait but I already said that:idunno:



Yellow dak--it's a 2bbl m1, with a stock TB
I had the tb ported to 52mm but made no apparent change, second dyno session at the Nats with the modded TB yeilded 4 less hp. But, different dunk, different day, 4 hp is within the "noise" of variance you get when weather and dyno change

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 01:41 PM
Uh.... Stock block with stock bore and no machine work, stock crank stock rods stock low compression pistons stock heads...:idunno:

Sounds pretty stock to me, other than the intake, cam, headers, and SCT.... Oh, wait but I already said that:idunno:

After market cam, intake, headers and the SCT tune is far from being stock from the factory parts. All these parts are performance enhancing parts and are not 'stock'. It's comparing apples to oranges and your numbers DO NOT accurately represent the numbers of a factory STOCK 5.9! :nono:

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 01:49 PM
Well, a new sub forum!!

Here's my entry

Stock 5.9 with just a cam, M1, shorty (crappy) headers, and an SCT tune




After market cam, intake, headers and the SCT tune is far from being stock from the factory parts. All these parts are performance enhancing parts and are not 'stock'. It's comparing apples to oranges and your numbers DO NOT accurately represent the numbers of a factory STOCK 5.9! :nono:



if anyone reads the thread title, or my first post, and foolishly believes that these numbers are on a BONE STOCK 5.9, is an idiot.

surely YOU didn't read the first post, and believe that I tried to pass these numbers off as a bone stock, un-modded 5.9?:idunno:

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 01:54 PM
if anyone reads the thread title, or my first post, and foolishly believes that these numbers are on a BONE STOCK 5.9, is an idiot.

surely YOU didn't read the first post, and believe that I tried to pass these numbers off as a bone stock, un-modded 5.9?:idunno:

Stock is stock and modified is modified! Why would refer to a 'modified' engine as being 'stock'? Just saying. :idunno:

Filthy Filbert
09-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Stock is stock and modified is modified! Why would refer to a 'modified' engine as being 'stock'? Just saying. :idunno:



why? because it started life as a STOCK engine, and I changed 3 things. The camshaft. The intake manifold. The headers. which is why I said "stock with ______"

if I did NOT use the word "stock" then people would want to know if I had any head work done, or if I changed the pistons out for higher compression, or for forged pieces to add spray later, or....


This place is really starting to get annoying.


Peace out bro.

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 02:33 PM
why? because it started life as a STOCK engine, and I changed 3 things. The camshaft. The intake manifold. The headers. which is why I said "stock with ______"

if I did NOT use the word "stock" then people would want to know if I had any head work done, or if I changed the pistons out for higher compression, or for forged pieces to add spray later, or....


This place is really starting to get annoying.


Peace out bro.

Hence it's NOT STOCK...it's MODIFIED!!! What part of that don't you understand! :idunno:

98Dak408
09-01-2012, 03:06 PM
That’s pretty good Tom for an otherwise stock engine. :biggthumpup:

Axiom
09-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Good numbers!

I'm hoping to put down slightly larger numbers than this with a stock bottom end. Hand ported Eddys and a 228/232 @.050, 110 LSA. 600 lift. True duals fed through PPH mid lengths. 1.7 full roller rockers and Eddelbrock / Hughes intake with SCT. Martin Saine built 46RE.

SShiTbox
09-01-2012, 06:40 PM
If you guys want to see stock numbers compared to these then check out my thread. My truck is completely stock.

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 09:11 PM
If you guys want to see stock numbers compared to these then check out my thread. My truck is completely stock.

There's a lot of difference between a stock engine with auto (193/241) and a modified engine with manual (285/324), huh.

grapejuice1998
09-01-2012, 09:14 PM
Good ol Dwight. The ever-present "Turd in the Punch Bowl".

bwdakrt
09-01-2012, 09:24 PM
Good ol Dwight. The ever-present "Turd in the Punch Bowl".

Yelp, that's me!! I have this bad habit of pointing out BS when I see it. :rockwoot:

Broo42
09-01-2012, 10:52 PM
Good numbers!

I'm hoping to put down slightly larger numbers than this with a stock bottom end. Hand ported Eddys and a 228/232 @.050, 110 LSA. 600 lift. True duals fed through PPH mid lengths. 1.7 full roller rockers and Eddelbrock / Hughes intake with SCT. Martin Saine built 46RE.

That's pretty close to the cam in my 408. It pulls like a freight train above 4500.

Broo42
09-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Not bad. My 99 put down similar numbers with M1, Mopar PCM, shorties, single 3" spintech, and K&N. Gotta get some heads on that thing! :drive:

Broo42
09-01-2012, 10:57 PM
Good ol Dwight. The ever-present "Turd in the Punch Bowl".

:lol2::roll:

Axiom
09-01-2012, 11:00 PM
That's pretty close to the cam in my 408. It pulls like a freight train above 4500.

Good to hear. Thinking I should probably pick up a larger stall. I'm at 2800 right now.

Broo42
09-01-2012, 11:11 PM
Good to head. Thinking I should probably pick up a larger stall. I'm at 2800 right now.

If the info I got from the guy I bought the truck from was correct, the stall in mine is a 2800.

SShiTbox
09-02-2012, 12:41 AM
There's a lot of difference between a stock engine with auto (193/241) and a modified engine with manual (285/324), huh.

Yes, yes there is.

Hahns5.2
09-02-2012, 02:34 AM
Yelp, that's me!! I have this bad habit of pointing out BS when I see it. :rockwoot:
You're simply being a semantic douche. Everyone else knew what he meant.

yellowdak360
09-02-2012, 02:42 AM
You're simply being a semantic douche. Everyone else knew what he meant.

Dumbest argument ever.

sunike32
09-02-2012, 03:09 AM
Good ol Dwight. The ever-present "Turd in the Punch Bowl".

:lol2: :biggthumpup:

RTchas
09-02-2012, 10:46 PM
I call mine a "stock long block" with boost.:idunno:

jj malone
09-02-2012, 10:53 PM
You have a fancy exhaust tip, so your full of shit!!!:lol2:

Patrick
09-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Two things.

My stock 5.9L put down 370/824 through an AUTOMATIC. Not sure why your numbers are so low as we ran on the same dyno.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/Dakota740408/df601954.jpg

You are living up to your name, Filthy Filbert.

Look at that dirt.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/Dakota740408/06BF14F5-B338-4CC6-9473-D13A3699CEF4-8855-000009BEF58A3F2A.jpg

BryanRT360
09-03-2012, 07:00 PM
Two things.

My stock 5.9L put down 370/824 through an AUTOMATIC. Not sure why your numbers are so low as we ran on the same dyno.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/Dakota740408/df601954.jpg

You are living up to your name, Filthy Filbert.

Look at that dirt.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/Dakota740408/06BF14F5-B338-4CC6-9473-D13A3699CEF4-8855-000009BEF58A3F2A.jpg

Not to mention it was only firing on 6 cylinders. Imagine what it would put down with 8:jester:

Branx5.9
09-03-2012, 07:29 PM
Not to mention it was only firing on 6 cylinders. Imagine what it would put down with 8:jester:

They didn't give Pat any race gas either:idunno:

Patrick
09-08-2012, 11:47 AM
Not to mention it was only firing on 6 cylinders. Imagine what it would put down with 8:jester:

Still trying to figure out that miss.

Filthy Filbert
09-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Still trying to figure out that miss.


needs heads.

Filthy Filbert
09-08-2012, 11:52 AM
I call mine a "stock long block" with boost.:idunno:

how dare you call your engine "stock with boost" by putting boost on it, and presumably, an M1 intake, headers, SCT, etc. it's no longer stock! you're going to mislead some newbs trying to duplicate your build!:finger:

2k1AmberR/T
09-08-2012, 03:24 PM
how dare you call your engine "stock with boost" by putting boost on it, and presumably, an M1 intake, headers, SCT, etc. it's no longer stock! you're going to mislead some newbs trying to duplicate your build!:finger:

Typically a long block doesn't include an intake, headers, or a carb/handheld tuner. So really what he has truly is a stock long block. I don't know if he has different rocker arms or other valve train components...

Filthy Filbert
09-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Typically a long block doesn't include an intake, headers, or a carb/handheld tuner. So really what he has truly is a stock long block. I don't know if he has different rocker arms or other valve train components...

I was being sarcastic.:jerkit:

yellowdak360
09-08-2012, 05:56 PM
I was being sarcastic.:jerkit:

I guess you gotta change the title to stock long block 5.9 to please the forum cry babies. :r/t smile:

Filthy Filbert
09-08-2012, 06:57 PM
I guess you gotta change the title to stock long block 5.9 to please the forum cry babies. :r/t smile:


Nope, because even a long block includes the cam, which isn't stock.

yellowdak360
09-08-2012, 07:11 PM
Oops! Just get rid of Stock

wyotech_cuda440
09-08-2012, 07:13 PM
Nope, because even a long block includes the cam, which isn't stock.

Hmmm. Maybe the masses will be appeased if you change the title to "completely modified and race built far-from-stock 5.9 with a lot of stock parts re-used in the totally custom build




..... With a manual transmission" :rockwoot: :jester:

grapejuice1998
09-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Christ...it's not like Tom is selling it or anything. Fucking DEAL with it!

RTchas
09-08-2012, 07:57 PM
Light Mod is where he would be classed right? So call it a Light Modded NON Z code with a standard trans..:deadhorse:

Five9Dak
09-08-2012, 08:03 PM
I made 265/352 through the 46re with the mopar computer. And I picked up over 1 mph with my MS street tune, so it made even more. I'm putting the 727 in now, it will be interesting to see what it dynos. Still stock long block, stock cam.

MP408
10-06-2012, 02:14 AM
No one has commented on the fact that an M1 intake makes a nice torque curve close to the stock barrel intake and with the size of the cam the torque curve should have been lower below 3000 rpm if you believe what is advertized about the single plane vs dual plane intakes for our motors. my 2cents....

MP408
10-06-2012, 03:21 PM
It would have kept climbing with full headers and exhaust.

grapejuice1998
10-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Swell! We have a new expert in town!!! :biggthumpup::jester:

MP408
10-06-2012, 04:11 PM
I could post my dyno on here but I have a ram. Ive been reading all the boards comparing notes looking for M1 results on a 360 or 408 saying there is a torque loss just looking for proof not advertising.

Filthy Filbert
10-07-2012, 01:52 AM
No one has commented on the fact that an M1 intake makes a nice torque curve close to the stock barrel intake and with the size of the cam the torque curve should have been lower below 3000 rpm if you believe what is advertized about the single plane vs dual plane intakes for our motors. my 2cents....


? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...that the torque curve should be lower below 3,000 rpm? or that the hype about M1 intakes making less low end torque is wrong?



It would have kept climbing with full headers and exhaust.

I dunno, the cam manufacturer describes the power band as being "off idle to 5200 rpm" and looking at the torque "curve" it's a pretty dang flat 300 ft lbs of torque from 2500 -5200 rpm. Seems to be pretty much spot on.

I don't think I have a big enough cam, TB, Intake, or head for the shorty headers and a 3" exhaust to be the choke point in the set-up.

but, I don't claim to be the expert either.

MP408
10-07-2012, 11:51 AM
accoding to the experts the M1 is loses torque because its a single plane I have on on my 408 with and the torque on my graph peaked around 3200 on one pull then I had him start a little earlier and it peaked closer to 2700 Im saying it makes good torque. Who did your tuning?

Filthy Filbert
10-07-2012, 11:54 AM
"tag team effort" Sean aka "Hemifever" wrote the actual programs, but there was a lot of back and forth between the 2 of us, and discussion on what things to try/tweak, etc.

MP408
10-07-2012, 12:01 PM
Thats who Ive used. I want an LSA that low on my next cam but he said its alittle quriky to tune.

Filthy Filbert
10-07-2012, 12:04 PM
I got lucky. he told me the same, said that it may have to be tuned in open loop only, but when I data-logged it in closed loop cruise, the AFRs were smooth and steady, no "tick-tock" back and forth from lean to rich like he thought would happen, so we left closed loop mode enabled.

MP408
10-07-2012, 12:45 PM
This is my combination just for comparison. Crower cam 208/216 114/110 lsa 52mm F&B M1 Pacesetter longtubes true duel 3 inch custom x pipe 14 inch Magnaflows stock injectors 2.02 1.625 RT heads 10.2 compression 285/76/16 BFG All Terrain 4x4

Filthy Filbert
10-07-2012, 12:47 PM
That's a 408?

MP408
10-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Yes

skunkxracing
10-07-2012, 01:15 PM
Wow, it is so rich you are leaving a lot on the table. 11.5:1 at 4200rpm.

MP408
10-07-2012, 06:29 PM
My cast Eagle crank broke on the number one journal so havent been able to get it retuned

matt360r/t
10-08-2012, 07:19 PM
This is my combination just for comparison. Crower cam 208/216 114/110 lsa

208/216 114/110 lsa? Whats your lift? auto or man?

this is a kinda similar set up to what im planning on running

MP408
10-09-2012, 10:01 PM
Lift. 529/.544

matt360r/t
10-09-2012, 10:04 PM
interesting

dorbrod
10-11-2012, 10:28 PM
Was it a 4bbl or 2bbl M1 and what should i do with my exhaust? I plan to keep manifolds for now and its running through a stock y pipe with no cat going to a 2.25" single in and dual out muffler.

You must change your manifold for crappy headers and open the collecter of those headers.

That's what i have done to my flowtech headers. Now have 2.5 collecter compare to 2.25. But 2.25 was better than 1.875 of stock manifold.

Only thing with crap headers is that they don't always fit, on mine i had cut two pipe and face the flange cause they leek.

IDriftV10s
10-24-2012, 04:48 AM
The manual makes a HUGE difference in how much power an engine puts down, you should always let em know, heck you should be proud, no manual in an R/T dakota is the only reason i dont own one today...

grapejuice1998
10-26-2012, 04:47 PM
The manual makes a HUGE difference in how much power an engine puts down, you should always let em know, heck you should be proud, no manual in an R/T dakota is the only reason i dont own one today...

See Tom? It's not just me! :jester: