PDA

View Full Version : Supercharger kit suggestions



Five9Dak
08-16-2012, 07:40 PM
The welcome thread was getting a little long.

We can use this thread for potential customers to communicate what they would like to see in future v8 magnum motor positive displacement supercharger kits. Got an idea or comment, let me know here.

Five9Dak
08-16-2012, 07:42 PM
I'll start off- At nationals and in the other thread, there was mention of using an 03-04 cobra supercharger for a low cost kit. There is at least one company who makes a similar sort of deal to put that head unit on modular motors that didn't originally come supercharged, as they can be had very inexpensively. The power potential would be limited compared to a screw or TVS setup. The total cost would be $1-2k less when all was said and done though.

BryanRT360
08-16-2012, 08:30 PM
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s280/bryanrt360/264336_10150705364515648_262882950647_19749319_351 9028_n.jpg

krs1r/t
08-16-2012, 08:32 PM
Liquid cooled Kenny bell 3.6. Very nice choice, that's what we run on our lightnings!!!!
I would love to see one of those ontop of a r block!!!

BryanRT360
08-16-2012, 08:34 PM
Liquid cooled Kenny bell 3.6. Very nice choice, that's what we run on our lightnings!!!!
I would love to see one of those ontop of a r block!!!

One is a 3.6 the other is 4.2 :)

User
08-16-2012, 08:41 PM
One is a 3.6 the other is 4.2 :)

Those are fucking nice. I posted Chris' website and photo on my facebook and got a lot of likes and comments. Can't wait to drop one of those on the dak.

Five9Dak
08-16-2012, 08:53 PM
The big KBs sure are nice. They are availible for purchase seperately, but KB doesn't cooporate so well with small businesses, they want to run the show. This means it would be hard for me to get outline drawings. If I could get my hands on one to measure, that would help.

It is more likely I would supply a whipple, and for blowers that long, they likely would be top inlet due to our cowl shape restrictions, and require a cowl hood. These are slightly less efficient, but the inlet flow would work out better such that the package performance would be better overall.

The top of the line KBs are not out of the question, I wan't to design a kit that is suitable for an R block down the road.

krs1r/t
08-16-2012, 09:09 PM
The big KBs sure are nice. They are availible for purchase seperately, but KB doesn't cooporate so well with small businesses, they want to run the show. This means it would be hard for me to get outline drawings. If I could get my hands on one to measure, that would help.

It is more likely I would supply a whipple, and for blowers that long, they likely would be top inlet due to our cowl shape restrictions, and require a cowl hood. These are slightly less efficient, but the inlet flow would work out better such that the package performance would be better overall.

The top of the line KBs are not out of the question, I wan't to design a kit that is suitable for an R block down the road.

U r welcome to come to our shop to measure whatever u want. We have kb 3.6 liquid cooled, a 2.8 a 2.6 and a wipple 3.4 around!

dakfink
08-17-2012, 12:09 AM
I asked whipple and IIRC the 3.3l (200AX and 200R) will bolt in place of the typical 8-71 Roots type S/C.

Indy's ModMan Intakes have plates that accommodate 8-71 style S/C.

All that said you should be able to easily put a Lyshom (Whipple or Vortech) Twin Screw on any Small Block Mopar.

Whipple also sells the varied length of front drive snouts.

The only parts that should have to be custom is a crank pulley to run the S/C on it own pulley system and probably the Injector rails.

This is what I wanted to do, BUT I have a Vortech T-trim so I am working on a Cog System with that.

What has broke most of the S/C systems of the past is a Belt Drive system that couldn't make boost much above 8psi reliably. Usually the belt would slip on the S/C Pulley BUT for the few (like myself) that actually found fixes for that issue it would start to slip on the Crank Pulley, after some time it would wear/stretch the belt to the point it started throwing belts.

If you look at today's trend in many of the newer cars many of the S/C Mfgs are driving their systems on separate belt systems. Even to the point that Vortech now has Cog Systems for the new Chevies and Fords. Most are 8-10rib belts.

Just FYI: Gates sells just about any size belt you need. I just bought one of their 1520mm x 50mm 8mm HTD Belts that list for $135+ for $83 through my local dealer. Vortech Charges $135+ for their 1440mm Cog Belts.

My biggest issue so far doing my project on my own is spacers and getting the Mounting Plates cut after I mock/hack the prototypes up to fit.

BryanRT360
08-17-2012, 12:24 AM
I asked whipple and IIRC the 3.3l (200AX and 200R) will bolt in place of the typical 8-71 Roots type S/C.

Indy's ModMan Intakes have plates that accommodate 8-71 style S/C.

All that said you should be able to easily put a Lyshom (Whipple or Vortech) Twin Screw on any Small Block Mopar.

Whipple also sells the varied length of front drive snouts.

The only parts that should have to be custom is a crank pulley to run the S/C on it own pulley system and probably the Injector rails.

This is what I wanted to do, BUT I have a Vortech T-trim so I am working on a Cog System with that.

What has broke most of the S/C systems of the past is a Belt Drive system that couldn't make boost much above 8psi reliably. Usually the belt would slip on the S/C Pulley BUT for the few (like myself) that actually found fixes for that issue it would start to slip on the Crank Pulley, after some time it would wear/stretch the belt to the point it started throwing belts.

If you look at today's trend in many of the newer cars many of the S/C Mfgs are driving their systems on separate belt systems. Even to the point that Vortech now has Cog Systems for the new Chevies and Fords. Most are 8-10rib belts.

Just FYI: Gates sells just about any size belt you need. I just bought one of their 1520mm x 50mm 8mm HTD Belts that list for $135+ for $83 through my local dealer. Vortech Charges $135+ for their 1440mm Cog Belts.

My biggest issue so far doing my project on my own is spacers and getting the Mounting Plates cut after I mock/hack the prototypes up to fit.
Have you seen what the OP has developed already?? He is utilizing the mod man intake.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s280/bryanrt360/2012-08-08_21-55-52_87.jpg

RTchas
08-17-2012, 12:59 AM
Chris I guessing A/C is a No Go with your set-up? Any plans to incorperate A/C ?

dakfink
08-17-2012, 01:24 AM
Have you seen what the OP has developed already?? He is utilizing the mod man intake.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s280/bryanrt360/2012-08-08_21-55-52_87.jpg

Yes I seen it!!! But wasn't sure that was the ModMan or not. As BDS also has intakes for SB Mopars.

Only issue I see is for those that want to push that S/C for 10-14-18psi boost.

Even the Mustang guys start to have issues with belt slip when you start getting up that high.

krs1r/t
08-17-2012, 01:29 AM
Yes I seen it!!! But wasn't sure that was the ModMan or not. As BDS also has intakes for SB Mopars.

Only issue I see is for those that want to push that S/C for 10-14-18psi boost.

Even the Mustang guys start to have issues with belt slip when you start getting up that high.

all the lightnings at our shop are running 24-30.8lbs so what they are doing is working

Five9Dak
08-17-2012, 02:42 AM
Chris I guessing A/C is a No Go with your set-up? Any plans to incorperate A/C ?

First prototype is not compatible with AC, production kits will be. I already have some ideas for this.

Five9Dak
08-17-2012, 02:45 AM
Yes I seen it!!! But wasn't sure that was the ModMan or not. As BDS also has intakes for SB Mopars.

Only issue I see is for those that want to push that S/C for 10-14-18psi boost.

Even the Mustang guys start to have issues with belt slip when you start getting up that high.

Dedicated drives are in the works. The added benifit to this is that you can slide the blower foward and fit a larger inlet between the blower and the cowl.

As far as the big stuff is concerned, I have no inclincation to put a 6/8-71 style blower on a small block. The very large whipples of the same form factor are certaintly a possibility. The challenge will be to keep port injection with a reasonable injector angle for the big stuff. The "small bore" 2.2 is already a tight squeeze on the new injector angle I picked. The 2.2 won't fit between the stock angle.

Five9Dak
08-17-2012, 02:45 AM
U r welcome to come to our shop to measure whatever u want. We have kb 3.6 liquid cooled, a 2.8 a 2.6 and a wipple 3.4 around!

I will probably take you up on this when the time comes, thanks!

krs1r/t
08-17-2012, 02:51 AM
I will probably take you up on this when the time comes, thanks!

Any time Chris O #1

Five9Dak
08-17-2012, 02:54 AM
:jester:

White Turbo
08-17-2012, 03:11 AM
Any time Chris O #1

If he is CO1, does that make you CO2 ?

:D

krs1r/t
08-17-2012, 03:19 AM
Lol I guess Co2! Good catch!

one bad dakota
08-18-2012, 02:49 AM
Chris, any plans to do a draw through carb application? I wouldn't think that would be to tough to do. I believe whipple offers a carbed application on a sbc kit.
Tom

Five9Dak
08-18-2012, 03:54 PM
I can do top entry carb stuff using whipple compressors.

one bad dakota
08-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Great! So it looks like you will run a separate pulley/belt system divorced from the stock serpentine one?
I'm running an electric water pump and A/C delete bracket so I've been looking for an old paxton kit for two years. A twin screw would be a dream and the tuning would be easier with the draw thru as well.
Tom

Five9Dak
08-19-2012, 03:33 AM
This particular kit uses the stock 7 rib drive. A dedicated drive is definitely on the radar.

one bad dakota
08-19-2012, 12:39 PM
Ok, I know you said your prototype has a non A/C routing. Will this be made available as a kit for us A/C delete guys?

Five9Dak
08-19-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah I can offer a non A/C bracket, that would be a revision of the first prototype bracket you see pictured. This way it wouldn't look funny if you didn't have an A/C compressor.

one bad dakota
08-19-2012, 08:12 PM
Excellent, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product. I only want to run 5-8lbs anyway. I don't think my block could take much more.

White Turbo
09-13-2012, 03:10 AM
Chris,

When your new set up is all said and done...

How will it compare to the centrifugal S/C's on the top end of the RPM band?

We all know KB has a lot of grunt in the lower RPM range. Will your set up allow it to breathe and produce good power up top too?

Honest assessment... Worse, better, or as good as a centrifugal, on a lb. for lb. basis?

Five9Dak
09-13-2012, 03:35 AM
Good centrifuguals are briefly more efficient than screws. But generally take more power to drive. Their boost curve pales in comparison. In a properly setup drag only car with a huge converter and very short operating range, the centri will be faster. For a street strip heavy vehicle, the screw is the way to go. Screws don't fall off up top, the boost carries all the way to redline. UNLESS you restrict the inlet like a certain dodge kit we are all aware of.

I'm not very familiar with what lower PSI centris will do on these heavy trucks. Most everyone throws more boost at them almost immediately, presumably because a low boost centri might only make 2-3psi at converter stall, (unless its a huge converter) and the user wants more, so it he pullies it up. The screw would be at full boost when the converter flashed.

So I guess to answer your question- lb of lb at a given operating point the centri will make more power. But both pullied for the same max boost, the screw will be making full boost the whole pass, and the centri will only hit max boost at three points.

We'll have some results here soon enough. Know of any stock longblock centri setups that would be a good comparison?

Five9Dak
09-13-2012, 03:48 AM
That was more or less a general answer.

My specific kit, placed on a stock motor, should compare VERY favorably to a centri.

Take a 6psi centri kit. You have say 6psi at 5k rpm and a stock converter. (or any other boost level for that matter) Generally going to leave pretty soft, and boost will come as the stock intake falls off, making for OK top end.

Now my setup will be a stock motor, 6psi all the time, and a very short runner bellmouth intake that will make much more up top than the beer barrel. Still a stock converter. Come out of the hole with full boost, and the motor won't mind that stock converter. It will still leave HARD. Get past 3k rpm and the intake manifold is not only outshining the beer barrel, you still have 6psi stuffing through it instead of say 3. Get to redline, you still have 6 psi on the highflow intake when the centri just reaches it's prime, stuffing 6psi into the restrictive beer barrel.

Now if you spend another 2-3k in supporting mods on the centri, it starts to compare with my kit already includes. CAI, TB, Intake, fuel rails. But you still dont have nearly the boost curve. You'll end up with a ton of gear and a huge converter, making the truck less streetable to keep the motor in its narrow powerband.

White Turbo
09-13-2012, 04:34 AM
Gotcha :biggthumpup:

What size TB is included in your kit?

Seeing as how your kit replaces the stock beer barrel and TB, and the characteristics of screw S/C's in general, it's a certainty that 60' times would be better with your KB set up than a similar pullied centri.

And since the full boost curve comes on lower in the RPM band and stays consistent up to the rev limit, the centri will only outshine at the top end of each gear.

So it seems to me that if everything else is equal, (i.e. boost, race weight, gearing, converter stall, fuel, tuning, etc.), the KB truck already has the advantage outta the hole. Leaving the stock longblock centri with little room to catch up at the top of each gear.

Because the stock longblock truck still has a BB manifold, IMO it won't catch it. I would go so far as to say that even with the M-1 on a SLB truck, it might have a tough time catching up.

Anyways, thanks for the info. Looking forward to real world test results.
:biggthumpup:

Five9Dak
09-13-2012, 10:47 PM
The most likely TB scenario is that production kits will INCLUDE at 2x67mm SRT-10 TRUCK aftermarket TB (BBK). You can optionally delete it to save money, and get a used 2x65mm SRT-10 TRUCK oem TB. I found mine for 125 bucks. The BBK unit is worth $375.

If you don't need kick down or cuirse, the SRT-10 viper TB might also work, but I haven't verified this. The core I am prototyping with is the truck model, so it has cruise and kickdown hookups.

There are monoblade options availible for this flange as well, if the 2x67 is not sufficient for the user's power goals. You can see in the pictures on my website and facebook how big the plenum minimum cross sectional area is. More than three times larger than the original kit. Should flow a bit more air.

The OEM piece is spherical bore for easy tip in, the BKK is straight bore. The OEM unit could easily be straight bored and ported, or used as a core for monoblade upgrade. (you need to transfer some of the guts from the OEM to the monoblade housing)

nevr2fast01
09-14-2012, 05:55 PM
hey chris i got a truck that i could drop off for fitment when your ready lol i want one of these!!

Five9Dak
09-14-2012, 11:15 PM
What are the details on the truck?

nevr2fast01
09-15-2012, 01:07 AM
stock 360 with m1 1.7rr,52mm f&b and pph mids with sct tune, it needs the boost

Five9Dak
09-15-2012, 04:53 AM
Are you interested in a production quality kit, or being a beta tester?

nevr2fast01
09-16-2012, 11:57 PM
I can be a test dummy, it does have a t56 in it

Five9Dak
09-17-2012, 12:06 AM
Ok sounds good. I am looking for one manual and one automatic truck. Who is the tuner for the SCT? Do you have a local dyno shop? Will they work with your tuner?

nevr2fast01
09-17-2012, 04:58 PM
there is a tuner that is top notch and have done alot of mopars, and even some custom tuning for me and my buddy who has a magnum
http://www.rdpmotorsport.com/

dakfink
09-20-2012, 01:40 AM
there is a tuner that is top notch and have done alot of mopars, and even some custom tuning for me and my buddy who has a magnum
http://www.rdpmotorsport.com/

PLEASE fill us in with a Lot more details because I have seen a lot of Shady Information on the Guy that owns that place over on Yellow Bullet.

Some of it the info was self incriminating from himself.

Guess he left a lot of Pissed off customers in Australia. He was also getting his Hemi Engines at one time from Arrington because he was having issues building them himself.

Far as tuning? Haven't heard anything bad in that area yet.

nevr2fast01
09-21-2012, 03:31 PM
PLEASE fill us in with a Lot more details because I have seen a lot of Shady Information on the Guy that owns that place over on Yellow Bullet.

Some of it the info was self incriminating from himself.

Guess he left a lot of Pissed off customers in Australia. He was also getting his Hemi Engines at one time from Arrington because he was having issues building them himself.

Far as tuning? Haven't heard anything bad in that area yet.


nice haha i've just dealt with the dyno tuning, didnt know that! i got alot of other performance shops in the area i can use lol

2krt
04-04-2013, 02:03 AM
Do they still make a kb for the 5.9 and how much do they cost

2krt
04-04-2013, 02:04 AM
Or is there another kb that would fit

Five9Dak
04-04-2013, 11:44 PM
The kenne bell kit is discontinued. You can find them used. No one currently produces twin screw or roots supercharger kits for magnum motors. I will be producing a twin screw supercharger kit soon. You will have to source an mx422 compressor yourself, or buy one from me. The mx422 is what came in the original dodge truck 2.2L twin screw kits from kenne bell. Complete kits with other and larger superchargers will follow.

www.zcodeperformance.com

Middy
09-11-2013, 01:25 PM
Wow I didn't even know I had a logon for this site. :drive:

I stumbled on this thread looking for a whipple charger kit for a magnum 5.2 (with NV3500). The question I had is would your kit be compatible with the wipple or other air bypass valve for better economy?

I'm not a hardcore racer just looking for some extra zip.

Thanks for any info.

Five9Dak
09-11-2013, 01:53 PM
The kit utilizes the same style bypass valve as the whipple kits. They come in the kenne bell that this kit uses to source the compressor, snout and baypass from. In the future I will provide complete kits with new whipple compressors, and they will also include bypass valves.

You cannot use a twin screw supercharger in a street application (edit) WITHOUT a bypass, the compressor will over heat.

The photographs on the website do not show the bypass, but the prototype is utilizing one. When the website gets updated, it will reflect this.

Middy
09-11-2013, 10:58 PM
nevermind :idunno:

Five9Dak
09-12-2013, 01:50 AM
-You cannot use a twin screw supercharger in a street application with a bypass, the compressor will over heat.-

Should read

-You cannot use a twin screw supercharger in a street application WITHOUT a bypass, the compressor will over heat.-

Sorry about the confusion. I will edit the original. The kit is suitable for street use, and does utilize a standard whipple style bypass valve.

Middy
09-12-2013, 01:54 AM
Cool, that's what I thought after I looked at it a few times. I like the look of this kit alot.

GodspeedStudios
10-11-2013, 01:28 AM
whats the status of this kit? pricing?

RTchas
10-11-2013, 12:52 PM
whats the status of this kit? pricing?

it's alive and looks killer from the siting I had last month.
last I heard it was making good power and eating 727 transmission parts !:biggthumpup:

Five9Dak
10-11-2013, 05:24 PM
Haha thanks Chas.

The alpha kit is operational and the only problem is its hard on tires. Once the transmission is fixed (technically not a failure related to power) it will go on the dyno for fine tuning.

I'm going to make some small revisions and then a beta tester will get it to work on the instruction manual with me.

AndysRedRt
10-17-2013, 07:43 PM
I cant wait for this kit. Im buying one asap.

JFreddy
10-25-2013, 11:33 PM
Also buying one ASAP!

00magnum00
03-20-2015, 01:48 PM
What's the status on this kit?? Really want a different inlet, I have a kenne bell blower with the inlet and outlet, and I would like to not have to use the inlet if I can, and possibly the outlet. Really the like the idea of your kit, looks super efficient compared to the lame setup this kit comes with