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White Turbo
06-12-2012, 02:33 AM
Post up your knowledge, questions, and insight about Megasquirt here.

MS site links, forum links, discussion links, technical info, etc....


Let's keep it on topic please. :biggthumpup:

Sick 660r
06-12-2012, 02:43 AM
Here are some links

Very good book to get you started
http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-HP1557/dp/1557885575

A link to the MS forums and documentation
http://msextra.com/

Where I would suggest purchasing from. You may want to wait till the holidays because they usually have sales.
http://www.diyautotune.com/

AEM no longer makes the patch harness for us but if you find one I would suggest snatching it up because it will make the install much easier and will allow you to install MS without cutting any stock wires. You could also make the switch back to JTEC to pass emissions.

I will get this out of the way now...

your fuel sync must be set to zero!!!

Five9Dak
06-12-2012, 03:14 AM
Patch number for the (discontinued) AEM patch harness is 30-2984. A similar patch harness could easily be constructed from a junkyard engine harness and JTEC of any flavor.

It is important to note that users who want to retain the JTEC for transmission or other body functionality will be doing a "parallel" install. This has some differences from the standard documentation that are addressed in the document some of us have been working on.

NOTE: work in progress. If you have information to contribute, let me know and I will get you editing rights.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H3mHIXcjywpLatW_SuBqgEXum-YBHvZTovB0H5Mltcs/edit

White Turbo
06-12-2012, 03:39 AM
Copied this from Hahns5.2 in the other thread.

An interesting conversation about MS3 from Bangshift.com

http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showthread.php/33781-Can-one-EFI-box-make-quot-more-power-quot-than-another-all-else-being-equal?p=627980#post627980

scatpackdal
06-14-2012, 06:18 PM
Is it safe to say someone has tried ordering the AEM patch harness from every retailer on Google Shop that returns a hit for the part number? Talked to ShopHemi today and they of course can't get it from AEM, and Justin said he's had a lot of interest in it recently. There's another 10+ sites all claiming to have it, but if it lists the AEM SKU# I'm pretty much assuming it is supposed to drop ship from AEM which isn't possible. Any leads would be great if they do exist out there.

Five9Dak
06-14-2012, 06:47 PM
They come up used on viper forums. If enough people ping AEM they might start making them again. Unless the connector supplier discontinued the JTEC connector.....

Justin is attempting to make one from junkyard engine harness and a broken JTEC. It will require a lot of desoldering labor.

grapejuice1998
06-15-2012, 12:07 AM
Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?

dakfink
06-15-2012, 01:01 AM
One thing I did find that I liked very much is that YOU can build a Test Simulator to make sure your Systems are working as required before calling them good. Or for trouble shooting purposes.

That goes for the MSquirt and the MShift as well.

They also Integrate together via CAN-bus.

I am looking into the MShift. It should be doable. The Trans-Controller that ATS sells is the one that PCS sells for the Chevy 4l60/80E transmissions.

Only 2 questions I have is what are the differences Electrically between the 47re and the 46re. "NONE That I know of." And 2 what did they mod about the ValveBody? You have to use one of their specific ValveBodies with the TransController.

dakfink
06-15-2012, 01:52 AM
Found the 47re shifting thread BUT it has not been updated since Sept-2011.

Sounds like the guy was on a good track. He was operating most basic functions with just the MS3x

http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25&start=10

Duner
06-15-2012, 02:12 AM
Does anybody feel like sending me their MS3 tune to take a look at?

I just loaded up TunerStudio....

2k1AmberR/T
06-15-2012, 02:34 AM
Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?

No.

dakfink
06-15-2012, 02:46 AM
Does anybody feel like sending me their MS3 tune to take a look at?

I just loaded up TunerStudio....

LOL!!! Does this look cheap enough and out of the Norm for you to actually be Considering it????

Get the trans control sorted and we might have what we have been looking for, for a long time.

I may be going this route just for shits-n-grins. It's something I can order and do while I am deployed. Order, assemble and test the Kit while I am overseas.

2k1AmberR/T
06-15-2012, 02:48 AM
The PCM can control the trans. If you aren't using the PCM, why are you still trying to use the 46re?

Duner
06-15-2012, 02:50 AM
LOL!!! Does this look cheap enough and out of the Norm for you to actually be Considering it????

Get the trans control sorted and we might have what we have been looking for, for a long time.

I may be going this route just for shits-n-grins. It's something I can order and do while I am deployed. Order, assemble and test the Kit while I am overseas.

After playing with the SCT tables for a little bit..... everything in TunerStudio looks way easier to wrap my head around.

cw25
06-15-2012, 04:25 AM
If it were me converting my R/T to MS I would take the more headache free option of a manual valve body for the transmission. Just shift it your self. No computer needed. http://www.apsprecision.com/ValveBody.html#manualshift

Hahns5.2
06-15-2012, 04:29 AM
Everything I've read about the SCT PRP is that it isn't user/newb friendly at all.

When I went with MS, I had never tuned anything before, ever. I just read and read and read some more, till I had a good idea of what I was doing. And I think my tune is pretty damn good. I think it would be perfect if I knew my actual injector dead time. You also have the option of taking logs, auto-tuning them "offline", then burn the new tune. I usually do this instead of auto tuning live. Acceleration enrichment is the hardest part to get right, and if the hardware isn't up to snuff, you'll never get it right. I had to correct a ground issue with the stock TPS wiring to get rid of the noise so I could get the threshold low enough for perfect AE. If there's electrical noise in the TPS, you will get false AE triggers with a low threshold, and a high threshold is unresponsive.

cw25
06-15-2012, 04:31 AM
After playing with the SCT tables for a little bit..... everything in TunerStudio looks way easier to wrap my head around.

The only bad thing is you have to configure the base tune yourself. BUT you can configure it to do really anything you want. Don't worry about not having enouph resolution like there has been talk of. I only have 3 lines of VE lines for boost and have no problems keeping a very nice A/F. Probably the trickiest thing was getting a near perfect cold start and warmup. That is being pretty picky. For yous in the warmer areas of the continent it isn't as much of a issue.

wyotech_cuda440
06-15-2012, 04:33 AM
If it were me converting my R/T to MS I would take the more headache free option of a manual valve body for the transmission. Just shift it your self. No computer needed. http://www.apsprecision.com/ValveBody.html#manualshift

I would agree about the manual VB, but I've heard to stay away from APS. MSaine can also do a manual VB and he has a much better reputation.

I have considered using a manual VB with a paddle-shift kit to control it, paddle shifting would be fun. You could use the same solenoid box that the paddle shift kit uses and control it with a simple output from the MS3 to shift at the exact rpm you want. It would be worthless for part throttle driving, but you would have perfect consistency for racing, very similar setup to an air shifter.

For a driver, I would stick to the manual VB with a floor shifter or paddle shifter.

cw25
06-15-2012, 04:41 AM
I actually did that but using a double acting pnumatic cylinder. Then I had upshift and downshift capabilities. The only problem I had was that I could not find a easy way to run the wires from the steering wheel on my old 79'. I may try it again on the dak but use the clockspring as I will be abondoning alot of the wiring in this truck. Having the MS upshift at full RPM really works well in as it makes the same shift every time no matter what. :drive:

dakfink
06-15-2012, 05:04 AM
The PCM can control the trans. If you aren't using the PCM, why are you still trying to use the 46re?


I want an Auto with O/D, what other trans you recommend?

wyotech_cuda440
06-15-2012, 05:10 AM
I want an Auto with O/D, what other trans you recommend?

Like five9dak, you can leave the JTEC in place to control the 46re while the MS controls the engine. You could also swap to a 46/47/48rh or a 518 trans, still a 727 based OD tranny but it's hydraulically controlled. Hook up a kick-down cable and you're done.

Duner
06-15-2012, 05:20 AM
Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?

01dodgedakota
06-15-2012, 05:39 AM
Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?

dont think so, but from what i've seen it would take no time at all to remove it long enough to pass emissions and then reinstall it

dakfink
06-15-2012, 06:51 AM
Like five9dak, you can leave the JTEC in place to control the 46re while the MS controls the engine. You could also swap to a 46/47/48rh or a 518 trans, still a 727 based OD tranny but it's hydraulically controlled. Hook up a kick-down cable and you're done.

And maintain all the issues that have been the plague of that transmission. Poor Transmission control and shifting from the PCM's programming and Lack of line pressure for holding power of the clutches.

The 46rh isn't much better, it has it's fare share of the same issues.

I believe a well built 46re (Martin Saine) controlled by a programmable controller will do very well.

As we have all stated the 46re is nothing but a 727 ( a well proven trans) with an OD and some electronics. So the core is a GOOD Trans. The electronics just need to be addressed. Which MegaSquirt can do in the form of MegaShift add-on.

OH and one more thing. The more I keep in place (original) the less the headaches and custom / fab work.

PacManRT
06-15-2012, 10:27 AM
Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?

Me and chris have been discussing this, it seems like with a few power resistors for the injector circuits and possibly some map sensor trickery, which I'm sure you already have to deal with boost, and you could have a happy enough j tec to pass plug in emissions testing. This will be one of my concerns when I do my ms install.

Five9Dak
06-15-2012, 11:26 AM
Is every wire necessary to run MS3 in one PCM connector?

No some sensors are in one connector and some outputs are in another. You don't need all three intercepted, but you need two. If you wanted to add some features that depended on vehichle speed, like boost, timing, traction control, transmission air-shifting- then you would need all three.

Five9Dak
06-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?

Yes it will require some work on your part though. I verified it is possible to spoof the injectors, the ignition produces the same soft code as the an MSD box. All the sensor sharing is transparent to JTEC. Figuring out any IAC related codes is the only unknown. If you have a cam that shows misfers on your current JTEC tune, that obviously can't be worked around. Although, you might get the motor to idle better on MS, and reduce or eliminate the misfire count.

For the map sensor I just use a bleed through a check valve.

2k1AmberR/T
06-16-2012, 12:17 AM
Ok... Is there any chance of getting MS3 to piggy back with the PCM enough to be emission compliant and not set codes?

It is easy enough to swap back to 100% PCM operation to be emissions compliant...

cw25
06-16-2012, 02:45 AM
Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.

Duner
06-16-2012, 03:11 AM
Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.

That would get around the emissions thing.

PacManRT
06-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Duner: You could run it like your FMU setup and only add fuel at boosted levels. It is a more basic install but you could run a couple big injectors that only inject fuel under boost. Use the MS to do timing and theoretically it should be pretty much invisible. I have thought of doing that for when I debated buying a SRT-10 but then bought a SRT-8 Jeep as a daily.

Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?

Five9Dak
06-16-2012, 09:58 PM
Just let the MS control the fuel injectors and use resistors to trick JTEC if you dont want those codes. I've verified this works already. Ran fuel/spark on MS (not idle yet) without a CEL.

01dodgedakota
06-17-2012, 02:20 AM
Just let the MS control the fuel injectors and use resistors to trick JTEC if you dont want those codes. I've verified this works already. Ran fuel/spark on MS (not idle yet) without a CEL.

im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?

Hahns5.2
06-17-2012, 03:04 AM
im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?
Yes, I plugged my stock injectors in for a while, I got tired of having 16 injectors clacking away so I took them out and live with the CEL, I'm OBD1 so passing emissions isn't a problem.

Five9Dak
06-17-2012, 08:21 PM
im curious, if your not using your stock harness for the injectors couldnt you just go to the junkyard and get some extra injectors to plug in to trick the pcm?


I use my factory engine harness for MS2. I haven't modified it at all.

01dodgedakota
06-17-2012, 11:33 PM
I use my factory engine harness for MS2. I haven't modified it at all.

oh i thought ms had its own harness you used with it

dakfink
06-18-2012, 03:22 AM
Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?

NO!! That was a Gen3 Hemi issue.

That intake was never designed to flow an Air-Fuel Mixture. Therefore the Fuel would separate from the air in the intake and puddle. What little that did make it was unevenly distributed.

The Magnum didn't have that issue even withe Kegger Intake which wasn't a Good design at all.

cw25
06-18-2012, 03:32 AM
Wouldn't that get you right back to where GiSM left everyone? Aux injectors making uneven fuel distribution a huge problem and causing trucks/cars (lxs) to pop?

Sorry I missed this post.

No it won't as dakfink pointed out it is the intake design that causes that. The M1 is a carburated intake that was converted to EFI by adding injector bungs, no issue there. Wouldn't trust much boost to the stock kegger intake even with the renforced belly pan.

Hahns5.2
07-17-2012, 01:14 AM
Digging this back up...


Spent the weekend tearing out my old MS2 (fuel/idle only) and it's "proof of concept" wiring rat's next and installed MS3X, full sequential, ignition and idle control (fan too). Started about 6pm on Sat and fired it up the first try around 2pm on Sun, I also avoid using crimps and solder everything I can. I then went and put about 40 miles on it letting autotune do it's thing. Then I went out this morning and drove it to work. Granted I had a pretty good baseline from my old MS2 tune to work off of. Most of us would be willing to share our tunes with anyone else anyways.

Hahns5.2
08-19-2012, 05:16 AM
The MS3X Hemi Daytona Bonneville car hit a top speed of 283mph at speedweek and set a record. They started slow and worked on the tune over a few runs. On the last day it dropped a cylinder and still ran 277mph. The goal was 300mph and I'm sure they'll hit it next year. The said the compression test was good so it's probably just a coil or plug problem.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/486575_10150969759310933_1031271556_n.jpg

91DakBuilder
06-03-2014, 03:09 PM
Sup guys, I'm finally in a place, where I'm testing my MS3. I'm curious to know if any of you have had trouble with Sequential injections and ignition control via MS3. I've had a few issues with my bench testing, but I think I've got them worked out. Lastly when wiring up the MS3 to the stock harness, did any of you guys use your stock harness completely or did you have to integrate it to the MS3 wiring.

Five9Dak
06-03-2014, 08:11 PM
My MS2 parallel installation uses a completely stock harness, with an AEM viper patch harness. There are some modifications that can be done to the stock harness to reduce noise in a parallel installation, but I haven't made them yet.

91DakBuilder
06-12-2014, 09:19 PM
I haven't installed my MS3 yet, but I'm getting closer. I think I'm going to use the extra stock harness I have, and just solder in the connectors to the MS3 wiring. Any thoughts on that approach?

Five9Dak
06-13-2014, 11:20 AM
That could work, but keep in mind the normal MS3 enclosure is not intended to be installed under hood.

91DakBuilder
06-13-2014, 12:53 PM
I was actually considering installing it in my Glove box, or under the Cowl of my Dakota. There is quite a bit of room under the Cowl and all fo the wiring should reach when I need it to. I appreciate your sugguestions and insight. I'm so ready to get this truck back on the road and driving.

KicknAsphlt
07-17-2014, 03:29 AM
This is something I need to get installed on my truck before next year....have to smog every other year, and it barely failed/passed last year. (passed first run, but dickhead failed me on visual...ran back through 3 other times after that and they all failed except for the last time and he ran the old-school test and cheated it to get it to pass). Figure with this, I could tune it to pass and not have to worry about it...lol.

skunkxracing
07-17-2014, 03:39 AM
This is something I need to get installed on my truck before next year....have to smog every other year, and it barely failed/passed last year. (passed first run, but dickhead failed me on visual...ran back through 3 other times after that and they all failed except for the last time and he ran the old-school test and cheated it to get it to pass). Figure with this, I could tune it to pass and not have to worry about it...lol.

If they plug in you will fail miserably! Ms ftw!

KicknAsphlt
07-18-2014, 05:34 PM
I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?

skunkxracing
07-18-2014, 05:51 PM
I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?

No

Ms runs the engine, jtec runs the transmission. Jtec is always pissed off (cel) that jtec doesn't see the injectors and various other things. I think I have over 10 codes at any given time.

2k1AmberR/T
07-18-2014, 08:28 PM
I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?

Hopefully you haven't spent the $1000+ yet!

FlyinRyan
07-18-2014, 09:32 PM
This is something I need to get installed on my truck before next year....have to smog every other year, and it barely failed/passed last year. (passed first run, but dickhead failed me on visual...ran back through 3 other times after that and they all failed except for the last time and he ran the old-school test and cheated it to get it to pass). Figure with this, I could tune it to pass and not have to worry about it...lol.

Why did it barely pass?

5 NINER
07-18-2014, 11:10 PM
I thought Orlando's parallel installation took care of that -- makes the smog computer happy by talking to the PCM, but all the work is being done by the MS3...?

I thought the parallel install allowed you to easily switch back to running the stock pcm and therefore pass emissions :idunno:

Five9Dak
07-21-2014, 11:54 AM
My parallel installation currently does not pass plug in OBDII emissions testing.

I experimented to prove that the codes I get can be eliminated through the use of power resistors to spoof the injector's presence. I never bothered to permanently install any, as my truck is mileage exempt in PA.

It is certainly possible to pass plug in emissions with a parallel installation, but nobody is actually doing it.

5 NINER
07-21-2014, 01:17 PM
My parallel installation currently does not pass plug in OBDII emissions testing.

I experimented to prove that the codes I get can be eliminated through the use of power resistors to spoof the injector's presence. I never bothered to permanently install any, as my truck is mileage exempt in PA.

It is certainly possible to pass plug in emissions with a parallel installation, but nobody is actually doing it.

I was under the impression that if you do a parallel install that you splice into the patch harness. Then if you want to run solely off the factory pcm you unplug the patch harness and plug the factory untouched harness into the the pcm. And at that point you could pass emissions (no CELs).

Five9Dak
07-21-2014, 05:14 PM
That is another option, if you have a combination that can be run off a JTEC pcm and tune you have, or easily reconfigured so that it can be.

KicknAsphlt
08-28-2014, 03:50 AM
Why did it barely pass?

Partly because the state lowered it's hydrocarbon limit drastically between last year's smog and the one two years before. The truck passed just fine on the first pass last year, but dickhead failed me on visual for O2 sensors because his book was wrong. Turns out my gas cap was bad as well, apparently.

I went back the next day with my proof that his book was wrong, but it was about 20* cooler.....barely failed hydrocarbons. Took the truck around town, beat the shit out of it to heat it up, then went back...still failed. I ended up going back a third time, which was going to fail, but because it was the end of the day and the guy was probably sick of me, he pulled some shady shit to get me to pass (use the old-school sniffer, no rollers -- calibrated the sniffer with the truck idling, then shut the truck off when the test started).

The failure could've been any number of things, I never delved into it though...just happy I passed. Truck has 180k on the clock, and spintech cats....could be either of those, or neither. I just know I need to figure something out before my test rolls around again next year.

hskr
08-28-2014, 04:53 AM
Partly because the state lowered it's hydrocarbon limit drastically between last year's smog and the one two years before. The truck passed just fine on the first pass last year, but dickhead failed me on visual for O2 sensors because his book was wrong. Turns out my gas cap was bad as well, apparently.

I went back the next day with my proof that his book was wrong, but it was about 20* cooler.....barely failed hydrocarbons. Took the truck around town, beat the shit out of it to heat it up, then went back...still failed. I ended up going back a third time, which was going to fail, but because it was the end of the day and the guy was probably sick of me, he pulled some shady shit to get me to pass (use the old-school sniffer, no rollers -- calibrated the sniffer with the truck idling, then shut the truck off when the test started).

The failure could've been any number of things, I never delved into it though...just happy I passed. Truck has 180k on the clock, and spintech cats....could be either of those, or neither. I just know I need to figure something out before my test rolls around again next year.
Move a few miles east to Nebraska where there is no smog testing. :finger:

91DakBuilder
08-28-2014, 06:48 PM
I'm currently going through the same problem you are. Once I get my 02 to pass emissions, I'll then install a second wiring harness for MS3. I'll only keep Jtec for emissions purposes. My envisioned setup won't really be parallel. But hopefully it will serve it's purpose non the less.

91DakBuilder
09-19-2014, 05:29 PM
What all was involved with running the parallel setup. I'm planning on starting this process next weekend. I've finally gotten to a place where the truck will pass emission. I'm hoping to go on the final test drive tonight, then emissions in the morning.

skunkxracing
09-19-2014, 05:43 PM
What all was involved with running the parallel setup. I'm planning on starting this process next weekend. I've finally gotten to a place where the truck will pass emission. I'm hoping to go on the final test drive tonight, then emissions in the morning.
here (http://www.racemagnum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66)

91DakBuilder
09-19-2014, 07:00 PM
Thanks Skunk