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White Turbo
12-22-2011, 11:04 PM
The DRTC exec board has several proposals under consideration for revising our racing class divisions.
We would like to get the forum's opinion on which, (if any) proposals are favored.

Bear in mind, these are only proposals, nothing is set in stone. They may, or may not be tweaked a bit.

We are leaving this thread closed, but you may post your opinions/comments/suggestions here:
http://dakotart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18170
Keep your comments brief, to the point, civilized, and don't turn it into a bitch session.

Also, this is an advisory vote only. An opinion poll, not a final vote.
The exec board will have the final say in which, (if any) changes are made to the racing classes.

Each proposal has it's pros and cons. Please read them over carefully before voting.

Proposal #1

These are the current DRTC race classifications.
http://dakotart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13219

Choose this option if you like the current set up, and don't want to change anything.


Proposal #2

Stock- No engine modifications allowed.
I think we should allow tires, chassis tweaks, or weight reduction though. That's all part of the fun and games of racing.

Light Mod- Basic bolt ons only. No built motors.

Heavy Mod- Basic bolt ons + power adder.

Pro- Built motors of any displacement but no power adders.

Outlaw- Built motors + a power adder (or two). Run whatcha brung.

Definitions:
Built Motor- Any stroker crank. High compression pistons. Any head changes (includes porting of stock heads). Any cam change.

Bolt-ons - Any performance mod not listed in the "built motor" definition.


Proposal #3

Stock- No engine modifications allowed. D.O.T. drag radials allowed. Removal of spare tire and tonneau cover allowed.

Light Mod- Bolt-ons allowed. Any weight reduction allowed. No built motor allowed (must be stock). Any tire and wheel combo allowed.

Heavy Mod- Bolt-ons allowed. 1 power adder only allowed. No built motor (must be stock). Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed.

Heavy Mod N/A- Boltons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Must be Magnum block w/ max. displacement of 367 cu. in.). No power adder. Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed.

Pro N/A- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Magnum block w/ displacement between 368 and 426 cu. in.) Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed. No power adder.

Pro- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Magnum block w/ max. displacement of 367 cu.in.) 1 power adder only allowed. Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed.

Outlaw- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Magnum block w/ any displacement). 1 or 2 power adders allowed. Any wheel and tire combo allowed. Any suspension allowed.

Pro Mod- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed. Unlimited power adders. Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed. R-3, LA small and big blocks, new gen Hemi blocks allowed. Unlimited chassis mods.



Proposal #4

#4 represents an index racing option. This is not bracket racing. No reaction times or dial-ins would be involved.

Stock.............. 15.00 and slower
Light Mod........ 14.00 to 14.999
Heavy Mod...... 13.00 to 13.999
Pro................. 12.00 to 12.999
Super Pro......... 11.00 to 11.999
Outlaw............ 10.00 to 10.999
Pro Mod........... 9.999 and quicker

Rules:
1. Must be a paid member to recieve a trophy.
2. Must post the timeslip w/ date and racing venue.
3. Cannot sand bag, gotta run full out.
4. Trucks can shoot for the bottom of any category.

The idea is simple. You have 1 second intervals to choose from. Either build to to run the lowest in your chosen category, or slow your truck down to make the lowest run in the next highest category. It's all about hitting the number.
Fastest in each category wins.

This eliminates the modifcation classes all together.

Those that have no chance at being the fastest in their category (without sinking a bunch of money into their truck), can add weight, or turn down boost, or run a larger S/C pulley, run a smaller NO2 shot, run in warmer weather, etc.

Those that are close to the bottom wouldn't need to do much. A few mods, take some weight out, run in cooler weather, etc.

It would level the playing field for most everyone. And give the little guy, (who doesn't have a lot of money), a chance at a trophy.
It would eliminate domination by any one truck with a build that noone can match, which the exception of Pro Mod, which would be like a "king of the hill" type deal.
This option has the potential to create fierce competition in 7 different categories.
Also, if this option is chosen, there will be an 1/8th index as well.

Duner
12-22-2011, 11:33 PM
It's just a matter of time before we get a few "monster" Outlaw / Pro Mod trucks - depending upon which proposal wins out. That will leave some room for the streetable trucks to still have a class to run in, instead of it just going to the race only trucks.

I like the idea that 7 different classes would mean that nobody runs away with their deal - but that doesn't really entice people to push their truck just a little harder if they are already sitting at the bottom of their time slot.

To be honest, I'm good with whatever is decided no matter what it is. I race and tweak on mine as a diversionary hobby where I just keep chipping away at it a little at a time instead of just throwing money at it. But I certainly don't begrudge anybody that can spend the money to make their truck quicker. Whatever makes a person happy with their truck is what's important.

krs1r/t
12-22-2011, 11:48 PM
I pick P3 but have a few ? Or comments!

P2. It sounds good-but there should be a pro outlaw class!!! For r-blocks and big blocks run what u got!!! Me and Dave s will need that class in near future! That's my thoughts for P2!!!

P3 I think this one is good too! But stock should be able to take out any weight the want!!!
And I have a question in the heavy mod class. U said (must be stock). I assume u mean stock short block???

huskerrt79
12-22-2011, 11:54 PM
I pick P3 but have a few ? Or comments!

P2. It sounds good-but there should be a pro outlaw class!!! For r-blocks and big blocks run what u got!!! Me and Dave s will need that class in near future! That's my thoughts for P2!!!

P3 I think this one is good too! But stock should be able to take out any weight the want!!!
And I have a question in the heavy mod class. U said (must be stock). I assume u mean stock short block???

I like your idea for a class for big block and R3. I like three, we should add that class to three! FTW.....:woot:

White Turbo
12-23-2011, 12:05 AM
I pick P3 but have a few ? Or comments!

P2. It sounds good-but there should be a pro outlaw class!!! For r-blocks and big blocks run what u got!!! Me and Dave s will need that class in near future! That's my thoughts for P2!!!

P3 I think this one is good too! But stock should be able to take out any weight the want!!!
And I have a question in the heavy mod class. U said (must be stock). I assume u mean stock short block???

No... I meant it the way it was written.

That's why we included a heavy mod class AND a heavy mod N/A class.

Under #3, a heavy mod is a DD with bolt-ons, stock long block, and a power adder like NO2 or S/C for example.
Heavy Mod N/A is your typical N/A 360, with heads and cam combo.

It helps to understand how we wrote the definition of "Built Motor".

We are considering any built motor as one that has head or cam changes.

krs1r/t
12-23-2011, 12:11 AM
What about m-1 intakes

White Turbo
12-23-2011, 12:12 AM
I like your idea for a class for big block and R3. I like three, we should add that class to three! FTW.....:woot:

I thought about doing that Jason.
I wasn't sure how it would go over on the board with 8 classes.

It's still something we can consider.

With the heads, cam, and displacement options of the R-3 and big blocks, they would dominate Magnums.

Unknown_element
12-23-2011, 12:14 AM
I pick P3 but have a few ? Or comments!

P2. It sounds good-but there should be a pro outlaw class!!! For r-blocks and big blocks run what u got!!! Me and Dave s will need that class in near future! That's my thoughts for P2!!!



x2

I think there should be a class for r block, big block, la, whatever not "stock magnum block" class.

huskerrt79
12-23-2011, 12:17 AM
I thought about doing that Jason.
I wasn't sure how it would go over on the board with 8 classes.

It's still something we can consider.

With the heads, cam, and displacement options of the R-3 and big blocks, they would dominate Magnums.

Im down for which ever way we do it. If R3 and BB doesnt get their own class, I will revert to an old saying, "if ya cant beat em, join em!" lol. It will make me push harder and save more.!!:woot:

White Turbo
12-23-2011, 12:20 AM
What about m-1 intakes

That's a bolt on.

Hugh Jassole
12-23-2011, 01:02 AM
# 2 or #3 would be fine with me

krs1r/t
12-23-2011, 01:07 AM
Well I really like P3 with the R- block, big block revision!
I wanna thank everyone involved, for listening to our opinions on a class revision and for your time spent doing it!!!:woot:

huskerrt79
12-23-2011, 01:20 AM
Well I really like P3 with the R- block, big block revision!
I wanna thank everyone involved, for listening to our opinions on a class revision and for your time spent doing it!!!:woot:

:biggthumpup::rockwoot:

nevr2fast01
12-23-2011, 02:12 AM
Well I really like P3 with the R- block, big block revision!
I wanna thank everyone involved, for listening to our opinions on a class revision and for your time spent doing it!!!:woot:

Agree'd! :biggthumpup:

White Turbo
12-23-2011, 03:15 AM
OK...

There seems to enough support for it...

I will modify #3 to include a separate class.

Pro Mod- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed. Unlimited power adders. Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed. R-3 blocks, LA small and big blocks, twin turbos, and new gen Hemi's allowed. Unlimited chassis.

Outlaw class will include any Magnum block (size unlimited) and 1 or 2 power adders.

I will edit the OP.

Anyone who has already voted, and wants to change their vote, please PM me. I'll change it for you.

bad360rt
12-23-2011, 12:10 PM
I like #3 as well, seems to fit the natural progression of mods nicely. :biggthumpup:

SB440R/T
12-23-2011, 07:58 PM
Makes the Nitrous choice easier, haha.

White Turbo
12-24-2011, 12:39 AM
Bumping to the front page.

Duner
12-24-2011, 03:47 PM
The poll is looking rather decisive at this point.

BluRT00
12-24-2011, 04:28 PM
I like #3 , but voted #4 to keep the little guys in it for a trophy. We don't want to scare off the low budget new R/T owners. Either class that is picked looks like I will be in the Pro Mod, or Outlaw class. Crap better make mo money for mods. :jester:

Duner
12-24-2011, 05:43 PM
I like #3 , but voted #4 to keep the little guys in it for a trophy. We don't want to scare off the low budget new R/T owners. Either class that is picked looks like I will be in the Pro Mod, or Outlaw class. Crap better make mo money for mods. :jester:

It's tough to imagine a $20 trophy having that much to do with what people do with their trucks.

White Turbo
12-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Keep the comments coming.

We want to get this wrapped up as soon as possible...
So if you haven't voted, please read the options carefully, understand each of them, and vote now.
We're looking at making any changes right after the 1st of the year, (if we do). The exec board will need to take a final vote to confirm any proposal.
To the board: Be ready to vote on this by Dec 31st, or Jan. 1st, at the latest !

This will effect everyone who races for trophies, and those racing at any future Nat meet. It's been a long time since the board made any changes to the race class divisions. IMO, they were outdated and needed improvement.
It may be quite a long time before they get changed again.

So let's do this thing right... We want you guys happy, and we don't want to have to revisit this issue.
Even if you don't race your truck, your opinion still matters here, so please...
VOTE NOW !

White Turbo
12-24-2011, 06:13 PM
It's tough to imagine a $20 trophy having that much to do with what people do with their trucks.


The folks with time, money and ambition are gonna mod there truck however they want, regardless of any rules we make up.
The rest of us poor folks are gonna dream of winning the lotto!

And there a ton of guys on here who are happy with the truck they have, be it a stock DD, or race truck. Some guys take the trophies and awards seriously, others don't care about them at all.
The one common bond we all seem to have is pride.
Pride in our Dakota R/T.

That's what the club, and this forum are all about. :biggthumpup:

Hugh Jassole
12-25-2011, 03:41 AM
voted in the pole

jj malone
12-25-2011, 03:46 AM
Liked 2 for less chasis restrictions and 3 for motor classes, so just voted 4:nana:

KicknAsphlt
12-25-2011, 06:52 AM
Yeah....I'm really diggin' #3 as well...

huskerrt79
12-30-2011, 02:00 AM
Looks like 3 is gonna be the fav.:stirringthepot:

krs1r/t
01-08-2012, 02:31 AM
So uh......:idunno:

BluRT00
01-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Shhhhh the Execs of the board are sleeping. :jester:

Adobedude
01-08-2012, 02:26 PM
Can I vote again....I have a new drivers license?

grapejuice1998
01-08-2012, 03:10 PM
The poll speaks for itself. :biggthumpup:

Duner
01-08-2012, 03:12 PM
Pretty much nothing left to talk about....

krs1r/t
01-08-2012, 09:04 PM
I agree grape, and duner! I'm not sure what the hold up is! I think it will be good for the site.

grapejuice1998
01-08-2012, 11:01 PM
I agree grape, and duner! I'm not sure what the hold up is! I think it will be good for the site.

There is no holdup. #3 is in full effect and will be used as a trophy guideline for 2012 thru the future.
We are still deciding on how to handle racing at a National meet, but I assure you, if it changes at all it will be for the better.

krs1r/t
01-08-2012, 11:20 PM
:biggthumpup:#3 in full effect!!!!:rockwoot: And any change from what it was is a big move forward!:biggthumpup:

Adobedude
01-08-2012, 11:52 PM
:biggthumpup:#3 in full effect!!!!:rockwoot: And any change from what it was is a big move forward!:biggthumpup:

Hurry up and drop that R3 in...

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 12:10 AM
The R3 is sitting nice and warm in the shop. I see it every Saturday! That is goin to be such a big step for me! No hurrying about it!!!

scatpackdal
01-09-2012, 12:19 AM
The R3 is sitting nice and warm in the shop. I see it every Saturday! That is goin to be such a big step for me! No hurrying about it!!!

No, no, you're missing the point. He's telling you need to drop in the R3 because he's coming with his 408 at the Nat'l Meet and plans to beat you on a Magnum block so you better go R3.

Adobedude
01-09-2012, 12:23 AM
No, no, you're missing the point. He's telling you need to drop in the R3 because he's coming with his 408 at the Nat'l Meet and plans to beat you on a Magnum block so you better go R3.

:biggthumpup:

Duner
01-09-2012, 12:26 AM
There is no holdup. #3 is in full effect and will be used as a trophy guideline for 2012 thru the future.
We are still deciding on how to handle racing at a National meet, but I assure you, if it changes at all it will be for the better.

I guess I better get my act together and start making some decent passes.

:biggthumpup:

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 12:26 AM
Oh. Is that what he is saying? I don't think so!:nono:

scatpackdal
01-09-2012, 12:31 AM
Oh. Is that what he is saying? I don't think so!:nono:

That David is a wily fella just wait and see.

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 12:43 AM
I would love to be on the other side of the tree from him when he gets his 408 in!!!

Adobedude
01-09-2012, 01:34 AM
I would love to be on the other side of the tree from him when he gets his 408 in!!!

Pack a lunch Mr .600 RT...:biggthumpup:

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 01:40 AM
Don't get to excited I would still have u covered!!!:finger:

Adobedude
01-09-2012, 01:47 AM
Don't get to excited I would still have u covered!!!:finger:

Ha...I'd be a 1/2 way through my 60' by the time you mashed the gas....:nana:

:jester:

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 01:49 AM
I'm just giving u a head start, u know making it close for the fans lol!!!:nana:

Adobedude
01-09-2012, 01:53 AM
I'm just giving u a head start, u know making it close for the fans lol!!!:nana:

:biggthumpup:

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 02:04 AM
We have got to see what ur truck will do down on earth!!!

Adobedude
01-09-2012, 02:31 AM
We have got to see what ur truck will do down on earth!!!

It would be faster....LOL

NA guys whom have moved here from Sea Level say they are about a second slower on a good day.

So right now with my stock bottom 360....11.66 if you go by what they say, seems like a lot. I bet I'd see 11's. Easy.

Duner
01-09-2012, 03:17 AM
Ha...I'd be a 1/2 way through my 60' by the time you mashed the gas....:nana:

:jester:

I've had a few people surprise me and tell me they notice I always cut .01 lights even on TnT nights. It's always easier when it doesn't count. :biggthumpup:

huskerrt79
01-09-2012, 02:48 PM
I believe that we have our first call out for the NAts!!!! On a local forum we have a call out thread for our track days, just a thought.:idunno:

#1: Adobedude vs krs1r/t

Hugh Jassole
01-09-2012, 02:57 PM
it'll never happen, Dave won't come

huskerrt79
01-09-2012, 03:06 PM
it'll never happen, Dave won't come

lol, just like the juice!!!:stirringthepot:

scatpackdal
01-09-2012, 03:28 PM
it'll never happen, Dave won't come

I believe there's a builder's conference in Columbus during the Nats. It's just a business expense. He'll be there.

Patrick
01-09-2012, 04:11 PM
I told Dave if he makes the trip I'll pay his meet fees.

Branx5.9
01-09-2012, 05:16 PM
If that happens I will chip in some gas money....

krs1r/t
01-09-2012, 09:31 PM
I believe that we have our first call out for the NAts!!!! On a local forum we have a call out thread for our track days, just a thought.:idunno:

#1: Adobedude vs krs1r/t

:biggthumpup:i call out u:nana:

Adobedude
01-10-2012, 02:02 AM
I believe there's a builder's conference in Columbus during the Nats. It's just a business expense. He'll be there.

Columbus, New mexico....Sweet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_New_Mexico

Might have to off the Drug Lords, but you guys have guns, DA is pretty good too.

scatpackdal
01-10-2012, 03:55 AM
Columbus, New mexico....Sweet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_New_Mexico

Might have to off the Drug Lords, but you guys have guns, DA is pretty good too.

If my median income was less than $14k I'd be slinging drugs ASAP.

White Turbo
01-10-2012, 09:35 PM
As Alan stated, the executive board voted to adopt proposal #3 as our new race class divisions.

They are in effect now for timeslip awards.

We are still undecided as to what format we will use at the Nats meet.

You can access the new rules here:

http://dakotart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13219

And here:

http://dakotart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=735

Adobedude
01-11-2012, 05:48 PM
So with the 408 I'll be:

Pro N/A- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Magnum block w/ displacement between 368 and 426 cu. in.) Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed. No power adder.

Even though I have a 727?

White Turbo
01-11-2012, 06:18 PM
So with the 408 I'll be:

Pro N/A- Bolt-ons allowed. Built motor allowed, (Magnum block w/ displacement between 368 and 426 cu. in.) Any tire and wheel combo allowed. Any suspension allowed. No power adder.

Even though I have a 727?

Yes...
We didn't specifically mention tranny mods in the new rules, but all transmission mods (including converter) are now considered bolt-ons.

They are allowed in all categories, except stock.

BluRT00
01-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Sweet now I feel like billy bad ass being in the Outlaw class. Crap need to cut more weight off the pig. :jester:

Adobedude
01-11-2012, 09:27 PM
Yes...
We didn't specifically mention tranny mods in the new rules, but all transmission mods (including converter) are now considered bolt-ons.

They are allowed in all categories, except stock.

:biggthumpup:

nevr2fast01
01-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Pro mod here i come!:rockwoot:

Duner
01-12-2012, 12:12 AM
I'm winning so far!

Of course the fact that nobody else has gone to the track yet this year might help?:idunno:

SB440R/T
01-12-2012, 04:17 PM
So I will be in light mod right?:D

krs1r/t
01-12-2012, 04:31 PM
So I will be in light mod right?:D

Just look for my name u will be right after that!!!!!:stirringthepot::finger:

SB440R/T
01-12-2012, 04:36 PM
Just look for my name u will be right after that!!!!!:stirringthepot::finger:

What is the list based off, weight of the driver?

krs1r/t
01-12-2012, 05:59 PM
:jerkit:U got to come up with something better than that!!! It's what u can bench press

Duner
01-12-2012, 06:08 PM
:jerkit:U got to come up with something better than that!!! It's what u can bench press

How much does one of our transmissions weigh?

Let's just say my 2x12 / floor jack system was ineffective...
and now I have sore shoulders and elbows.

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 06:11 PM
:jerkit:U got to come up with something better than that!!! It's what u can bench press


In that case, I win ! You guys are all pencil necks :biggthumpup:

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 06:12 PM
How much does one of our transmissions weigh?

Let's just say my 2x12 / floor jack system was ineffective...
and now I have sore shoulders and elbows.


I rest my case. I win, I win, I win. LOL

Duner
01-12-2012, 06:31 PM
I rest my case. I win, I win, I win. LOL

You don't use a jack either?

Adobedude
01-12-2012, 06:36 PM
You don't use a jack either?

:biggthumpup:

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 06:47 PM
You don't use a jack either?


assuming I could get the truck hight enough off the ground, no. I would just set it on my chest and press it into place. I've done this with ford C6s & C4s, never tried a mopar tranny before, but it can't be much heavier than a C6. Those things are porky for sure.

Adobedude
01-12-2012, 06:51 PM
assuming I could get the truck hight enough off the ground, no. I would just set it on my chest and press it into place. I've done this with ford C6s & C4s, never tried a mopar tranny before, but it can't be much heavier than a C6. Those things are porky for sure.

Damn...I thought you would pick up the truck and lower it onto the transmission.

J/K

I'm back in the gym after a couple years of neglect...Ouch, and Damn.

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 06:53 PM
Damn...I thought you would pick up the truck and lower it onto the transmission.

J/K

I'm back in the gym after a couple years of neglect...Ouch, and Damn.


If you need any help/tips let me know. Now, shut up and lift ! :jester::biggthumpup:

Duner
01-12-2012, 06:53 PM
assuming I could get the truck hight enough off the ground, no. I would just set it on my chest and press it into place. I've done this with ford C6s & C4s, never tried a mopar tranny before, but it can't be much heavier than a C6. Those things are porky for sure.

I prefer Powerglides when using that technique.

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 06:57 PM
I prefer Powerglides when using that technique.

I once did a ford FMX that way. Holy Shit ! The cases on those things are cast iron, for real. No bueno. I have a little trick though. I'll buy a couple of new tranny bolts and then cut the heads off them. I screw them into the motor and just slide the tranny onto the "pins". So I don't need to actually hold that weight for any great length of time. The most difficult part is finding a secure place to grab the damn things. I've always wanted to get under the back bumper of a p'up and try to leg press it. I'm just crazy enough to think I can do it. I regularly do leg presses now with 1100+ pounds. So it is possible. I know, I know...stupid blockhead. LOL

Duner
01-12-2012, 07:10 PM
I once did a ford FMX that way. Holy Shit ! The cases on those things are cast iron, for real. No bueno. I have a little trick though. I'll buy a couple of new tranny bolts and then cut the heads off them. I screw them into the motor and just slide the tranny onto the "pins". So I don't need to actually hold that weight for any great length of time. The most difficult part is finding a secure place to grab the damn things. I've always wanted to get under the back bumper of a p'up and try to leg press it. I'm just crazy enough to think I can do it. I regularly do leg presses now with 1100+ pounds. So it is possible. I know, I know...stupid blockhead. LOL

The back of my black truck weighs 1500 lbs with the rollpan on it. You're going to need more pah if you wanna do a CC.

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 07:24 PM
I'm repping 12-15 reps @ 1100 lbs. 1500, for a one rep max is definitely doable. I might have to train up for that, but I think it is within reach. Not bad for a 50 yr old fucker.

nevr2fast01
01-12-2012, 07:45 PM
you need to try and lift a superduty 6 speed zf tranny,took me and my dad and we'r no weaklings haha

krs1r/t
01-12-2012, 07:48 PM
In that case, I win ! You guys are all pencil necks :biggthumpup:

u weigh as much as my leg:finger:

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 07:56 PM
you need to try and lift a superduty 6 speed zf tranny,took me and my dad and we'r no weaklings haha


LOL, that's probably a bit much. Let's return this thread to the original subject. :biggthumpup:

Hugh Jassole
01-12-2012, 07:58 PM
u weigh as much as my leg:finger:

230 !?! Damn, that's one heavy leg. That's funny, you appear much slimmer in person. :jester:

Duner
01-12-2012, 08:05 PM
I think we dicked-up this thread enough that maybe some moderator should purge it of off-topic material maybe? :idunno:

wyotech_cuda440
01-12-2012, 08:09 PM
I think we dicked-up this thread enough that maybe some moderator should purge it of off-topic material maybe? :idunno:


http://images.mmosite.com/my/upload/a3/a4/dc6b0aa94421804836cc80e82de8c3e6/theme/f263187e435344e0969f1aab3ac3b3c9338.jpg

BluRT00
01-12-2012, 08:46 PM
http://images.mmosite.com/my/upload/a3/a4/dc6b0aa94421804836cc80e82de8c3e6/theme/f263187e435344e0969f1aab3ac3b3c9338.jpg

http://tourterelles.free.fr/chevauxdeclemence/images/8.jpg
:jester::jester::jester::jester: