getting rid of evap system

[Addicted2Blue00]

ive been workin on pulling the clutter out while the motor is out been ive forgot some details. any advice or extra detail is welcome.

1. the tube from the gas tank to the char filter box needs a breather filter
2. the plug to the part on the firewall needs certain resistor to keep away the CEL, mostly found to work on 98-00

[sunike32]

ive been workin on pulling the clutter out while the motor is out been ive forgot some details. any advice or extra detail is welcome.

1. the tube from the gas tank to the char filter box needs a breather filter
2. the plug to the part on the firewall needs certain resistor to keep away the CEL, mostly found to work on 98-00

1. I didn't bother putting a breather on mine. I simply coiled that hose up and left it sitting on top of the gas tank.

2. My '99 was happy with a 1/2W 100ohm resistor.

[Pete102580]

that sounds right to me!

(i just coiled my hose up too)

Pete

[WeezyRT]

I plan on doing this soon.

Where exactly does the resistor go; or will it be obvious once Im doing it?

[Five9Dak]

The lines go to a solenoid valve on the firewall/cowl shelf. You remove that and lines/canister and put the resistor in the connector on the wireharness in place of the solenoid. Make sure to shield it from water ingress, I just shot it full of diealectric grease and wrapped a boatload of electrical tape around it. It's lasted 3 years or so like that sitting on the valley pan of the M1

[Addicted2Blue00]

forgot to mention, block off the port beside the map sensor. i happened to find a pack of port plugs at the parts sort of assorted sizes.

[mtlcafan79]

I plan on doing this soon.

Where exactly does the resistor go; or will it be obvious once Im doing it?

Don't you have an 02? Resistor doesn't work for 01+ IIRC

[WeezyRT]

Don't you have an 02? Resistor doesn't work for 01+ IIRC

I did, not anymore. I have a 98 now.
Thanks for pointing that out anyway though.

[70Cuda383]

source for resistor? where'd you guys buy them? part number or link?

or do I go to the local radio shack and tell them I want a 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistor?

or rather, go to the radio shack in Columbus, because my local radio shack has proven to be a total waste of space, the idiot can't even stock the "common stuff"


--I went in one time looking for a special battery for a garage door opener. owner/manager looked at me and said "oh yea, those are probably the most popular garage door batteries out there....but we don't have any. we're out of stock."


really? THE most common garage door battery, and you can't keep it in stock? If I owned the store, I think I'd order 100 at a time, and when I got down to 20, I'd order 100 more, so I was NEVER out of stock.

plus I took a chance, knowing they sell RC cars that are a step above the big box store cheap crap, I was looking for batteries for my E-Maxx. it takes 2 7 volt batteries for a 14 v system. guy looked at me and said "7 volt batteries? everyone runs 9.6v now. I don't have anything in 7 volts" I rolled my eyes at him.

I try to support the local guys, but fuck, when they suck that much, I'm forced to go to Wal-mart:jerkit:

[sunike32]

I just went to the local Radio Shack and looked through the resistor section. If I remember correctly, I bought a 5 pack for a couple bucks.

[jmaack727]

I got mine from radio shack. .99 cents for 5a I posted a part number on here.

[70Cuda383]

Just picked up a pack at radio shack. They're up to $1.17 now

Anyway, I've got 5. Only need 1. Anyone else want a resistor?

[Last_in]

Just picked up a pack at radio shack. They're up to $1.17 now

Anyway, I've got 5. Only need 1. Anyone else want a resistor?

Save one for me when we swap the 360 in.

[70Cuda383]

Save one for me when we swap the 360 in.

ooh, I dunno, that's gonna cost ya like...$15.


everyone else, yours is free. the one I just sold Patrick will cover the cost of the other 3:jester:

[WeezyRT]

Just picked up a pack at radio shack. They're up to $1.17 now

Anyway, I've got 5. Only need 1. Anyone else want a resistor?

Sure, Ill take one.

[70Cuda383]

Pm me your address. First 3 to PM me get one. I gotta keep the last for Patrick


And I just did the mod. Took me all of an hour!!

[70Cuda383]

Now with pics and write up!

you know...cause this is so complicated and hard to figure out!:finger: whatever, enjoy the pics.


here's the resistors-- 1/2 watt, 100 ohm from Radio shack. after tax was like....$1.17 or something.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo3-1.jpg


Here's the before shot of the mess that I plan to get rid of.
notice the electrical connector plugged into the solenoid. THAT's where htis resistor will be going.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo4.jpg


I made a loop with the resistor to feed the wire through. I cut the factory connector off with about 6" of wire. stripped the 2 ends of the remaining wire, twisted the copper strands together and fed it through the loop here. Then twisted the copper up so it was all held together tightly without using solder/heat

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo5.jpg

AND:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo6.jpg


once each end was wrapped up together, I covered all the bare wire with tape, so that it wouldn't short together once wrapped up, then I wrapped both wires together to make this neat little "stub" of wire wrapped in tape. neat and clean, and nearly invisible once tucked away with the rest of the wires.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo7.jpg


And, here's all the crap removed...the rubber vacuum hoses, solenoid/valve/mounting bracket...and the wires tucked away.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo8-1.jpg



And this is everything I removed--vacuum lines, vent tubes, charcoal canister, etc. I took the rubber vent coming off the fuel tank and zip tied it up to the frame rail, so that it's secure, and still allows the tank to vent as needed.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/filbert383/photo9-1.jpg



total time took me all of about an hour to do this. the hardest part, was fighting the rusty 13mm bolt on the top of the frame that holds the charcoal canister. I had to put the wrench on the bolt head by feel, get a 1/4 turn, then lift the wrench off, and reposition, again, all by feel....and it was rusty, so I needed to add another wrench to the end of the 13mm wrench, to give me more torque. and it's a fine thread bolt, so it only took about 1000 turns to get it backed out all the way.

[Addicted2Blue00]

i plan to do the same with the vent canister

[rt dak]

I remember awhile back on Delphi it was said a 1/4 watt 100 ohm resistor was the ticket. I did that and all was fine back on the Mopar PCM but when I put my stock PCM back in recently I got the EVAP code. I figured maybe the resistor went bad or got broken in all the work I did to the truck lately. I soldered in a new one today and cleared the codes but it came right back. Guess I should try the 1/2 watt?

[rt dak]

total time took me all of about an hour to do this. the hardest part, was fighting the rusty 13mm bolt on the top of the frame that holds the charcoal canister. I had to put the wrench on the bolt head by feel, get a 1/4 turn, then lift the wrench off, and reposition, again, all by feel....and it was rusty, so I needed to add another wrench to the end of the 13mm wrench, to give me more torque. and it's a fine thread bolt, so it only took about 1000 turns to get it backed out all the way.

Yeah that bolt was a fuckin bastard. Damn near inaccessible.

[99408kotar/t]

How much would you say all that stuff weighs? Obviously the lines aren't heavy but I was wondering about the canister.

[hskr]

Some have gotten away with a 1/4W resistor. I never was able to. Would burn up the ressitor in just a few days. Stepped up to a 1/2W resistor and no problems since.

As for the '01+ guys, the resistor trick does work for the purge solenoid code, but you will still get a leak detection pump code. '00 Federal trucks and older didn't have leak detection pumps.

[rt dak]

'00 Federal trucks and older didn't have leak detection pumps.

I had one.

[Addicted2Blue00]

How much would you say all that stuff weighs? Obviously the lines aren't heavy but I was wondering about the canister.
maybe 5lbs?

I done it for less clutter under the hood and worry less about a code from a dry rotted hoses which would involve some time having to chase down.

[99408kotar/t]

maybe 5lbs?

I done it for less clutter under the hood and worry less about a code from a dry rotted hoses which would involve some time having to chase down.

Oh ok, well hey still 5 less lbs. That's good for at least 2/10's right:biggthumpup:

[70Cuda383]

More like 12 lbs would be my guess. The large charcoal canister is kind of hefty for what it is


The newer trucks w a leak detection pump... What is it, and where is it located? Surely there's a way to plug a port or something to trick it into thinking the system is working... Hook it up to a vacuum source to trick it into thinking it's seeing the purge solenoid working?

[rt dak]

More like 12 lbs would be my guess. The large charcoal canister is kind of hefty for what it is


The newer trucks w a leak detection pump... What is it, and where is it located? Surely there's a way to plug a port or something to trick it into thinking the system is working... Hook it up to a vacuum source to trick it into thinking it's seeing the purge solenoid working?

It's underneath the battery tray. Mine was working fine with the resistor for a couple years until I swapped PCMs, now I get the code. I'm going to try a 1/2 watt resistor and see what happens.

[99408kotar/t]

I'm gonna yank mine out this week.

[mtlcafan79]

Only way a 1/2W is gonna help is if you were burning out the 1/4W.

[hskr]

It's underneath the battery tray. Mine was working fine with the resistor for a couple years until I swapped PCMs, now I get the code. I'm going to try a 1/2 watt resistor and see what happens.
You swapped PCMs, that's your problem. If you have a leak detection pump, then you have a Cali emissions truck. If you were running with just the resistor in the purge solenoid connector and didn't have a code with the Mopar PCM then you probably had a federal emissions Mopar PCM in the truck. When you put the stock PCM back in, which is a Cali PCM, then you started popping the code for the LDP.

You can run a federal emissions PCM in a Cali emissions truck and get away with just the resistor because it doesn't know to look for a leak detection pump. This only works on the '00 and older. '01+ all had leak detection pumps as Dodge went to 50-state emissions across the board instead of having to stock two different part number PCMs and wiring harnesses.

[rt dak]

You swapped PCMs, that's your problem. If you have a leak detection pump, then you have a Cali emissions truck. If you were running with just the resistor in the purge solenoid connector and didn't have a code with the Mopar PCM then you probably had a federal emissions Mopar PCM in the truck. When you put the stock PCM back in, which is a Cali PCM, then you started popping the code for the LDP.

You can run a federal emissions PCM in a Cali emissions truck and get away with just the resistor because it doesn't know to look for a leak detection pump. This only works on the '00 and older. '01+ all had leak detection pumps as Dodge went to 50-state emissions across the board instead of having to stock two different part number PCMs and wiring harnesses.

Hmm thanks for the info man. I just searched my PCM part number and it comes back as a California PCM. Had no idea I had a Cali emissions truck. I need to get a new PCM due the the 5 speed swap anyway so i'll make sure it's a Federal one.

[Addicted2Blue00]

Hmm thanks for the info man. I just searched my PCM part number and it comes back as a California PCM. Had no idea I had a Cali emissions truck. I need to get a new PCM due the the 5 speed swap anyway so i'll make sure it's a Federal one.
ive got one layin here if ya interested, 00 fed non-security r/t

[rt dak]

ive got one layin here if ya interested, 00 fed non-security r/t

I need a 5 speed PCM, thanks though.

[matt360r/t]

when you remove the evap stuff, do you just plug the hose to the tb

[Addicted2Blue00]

when you remove the evap stuff, do you just plug the hose to the tb
yep, i happened to find some assorted sizes or nipple plugs at the parts store

[ScojoDak]

This thread should be a sticky.

[merctech]

whats the pros for doing this mod??

[Intense RT]

whats the pros for doing this mod??

Shed about, what, 5lbs? Cleans up engine bay some too.

[rt dak]

whats the pros for doing this mod??

Cleaning up the engine bay was the reason I did it. Plus I think some people had some problems with one of the tubes hitting the header and catching fire.

[70Cuda383]

Cleaning up the engine bay was the reason I did it. Plus I think some people had some problems with one of the tubes hitting the header and catching fire.


yup, there was a 1/2" or so rubber hose that had a cap on the end of it, came up to the firewall next to the solenoid. not sure why it was there or why it was capped...it might have gone to something else and a prior owner just capped it, but that kept hitting my exhaust and smelled like burning plastic. it was quite nerve racking after I actually did have a small electrical fire that melted part of my power distribution box from a corroded alternator wire.

fixed that and kept getting that burning plastic smell and I kept pulling over to check it for another fire.

the biggest gain you get from this, is a neater engine bay. no more spiderweb of vacuum lines and the solenoid on the firewall between the valve cover and brake booster.

no performance gain. it's just cosmetic. the system puts vacuum on the charcoal canister. it's an emissions thing.
someone, somewhere said that the millions of gallons of gas that evaporate to the atmosphere every year was killing tree frogs on some south african isalnd or some shit, and forced auto-makers to come up with a system that collects evaporated fuel vapors and then burns them through the engine.

fuel evaporates out of tank, gets captured in the charcoal canister, then when your engine is running, it puts vacuum on the canister to suck out the fuel vapors and burns them through the engine. your truck will run just fine without it. you may lose 1/2 gallon or 2 through the course of a year from the fuel evaporating into the air, but...so what? not enough for me to notice or care.

those endangered tree frogs can suck my left nut.

[tcuillier]

"those endangered tree frogs can suck my left nut."

Agreed! All of us, put together, will not generate as much pollution in our lifetimes---as the President and his wife did last week, taking separate "Air Force One" planes to Martha's Vinyard and back.

[Duner]

"those endangered tree frogs can suck my left nut."

Agreed! All of us, put together, will not generate as much pollution in our lifetimes---as the President and his wife did last week, taking separate "Air Force One" planes to Martha's Vinyard and back.

That's racist!

[70Cuda383]

That's racist!

hey, fuck you clown!


Martha was not racist! she grew every species of grapes known to man! not just the white grapes to make white wine! fag.:finger:



sometimes....I make myself laugh.:woot:

[hskr]

The larger line that was capped off is used on the Cali emissions vehicles for the leak detection pump. It wasn't used on federal emissions vehicles, but the large hose and smaller one are manufactured as one "unit" so to get one you get them both.

And as mentioned, no performance gains, purely cosmetic.

[jmaack727]

My butt dyno said 1.35 hp.

[tcuillier]

Al Gore is flat losing it! In a speech last week at the Aspen Institute, he totally went beserk---yelling Bullshit several times. Here's a link to the audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMr7Lyv1LTI&feature=related

[Five9Dak]

The real reason to remove the evap system on an R/T is it can and has burned trucks to the ground when the vent line falls on the header.

[Pete102580]

...you may lose 1/2 gallon or 2 through the course of a year from the fuel evaporating into the air,...



i highly doubt that

[Addicted2Blue00]

would it be possible to put a one way valve on the line from the tank so it only lets air in when the pump is sucking up gas?

[wyotech_cuda440]

would it be possible to put a one way valve on the line from the tank so it only lets air in when the pump is sucking up gas?

Your gas cap has a check valve that already does that for you :biggthumpup:

[Five9Dak]

i highly doubt that

My truck was on jackstands for about a month and I noticed it had lost gas. It has no evap system.

[mtlcafan79]

And I thought only BAG2's spent time on jack stands.

[Pete102580]

My truck was on jackstands for about a month and I noticed it had lost gas. It has no evap system.

through that tiny itty bitty tube that used to connect to the charcoal cannister? with little to no air exchange?

(ps im not an authority, it just doesnt make sense to me)

[Five9Dak]

The newer trucks might be different, there a big fat soft rubber hose vent on mine. I can see if it fell on the header it would have definitely caught fire.

[Pete102580]

yeah that one went to the canister, but the line to the gas tank itself is like 1/8" ID.

i duno, it's been a while and it's stupid to argue about :jester:

[Duner]

What's that smell?

The line that's about 3/8" and fairly hard plastic melted in half on my headers as well. No flames, but melted plastic all over the header tube and a nasty smell.

[70Cuda383]

would it be possible to put a one way valve on the line from the tank so it only lets air in when the pump is sucking up gas?

good idea, until you consider this:

gas when it comes out of the ground at the gas station storage tanks, is at ground temp. probably between 50-65 degrees.

what happens when it's 95 degrees outside, you fill up, drive 10 miles home, and then park the truck?

the gas tank vent needs to be free and open, or you'll develop a vacuum in the tank when driving, making the pump work harder, and eventually burning it up, and as the temps rise and fall, you need room for the gas to expand and contract, or you'll build up pressure in the tank.

neither situation is a good one to have.

[jmaack727]

If they vent off pressure why does mine hiss when i open the lid after sitting in the heat?

[hskr]

If they vent off pressure why does mine hiss when i open the lid after sitting in the heat?
Bad gas cap not venting properly?

[wyotech_cuda440]

If they vent off pressure why does mine hiss when i open the lid after sitting in the heat?

Gas caps dont vent pressure. They hold the fumes in, but the have a check valve that allows air in to prevent a vacuum in the tank.

Pressure in the tank is not a problem, it only helps the fuel pump, and pushes the fumes into the evap system if you still have one.

Vacuum in the tank is a big problem, its very hard on the fuel pump. That's why gas caps have the check valve that lets in air as gas is drawn out of the tank.

[jmaack727]

Makes sense as every car and truck we own does it.

[70Cuda383]

Actually, the whole point behind the evap system is to put a light vacuum on the tank to recover the evaporated fumes. That's why every new car turns on the check engine light when your gas cap isn't sealed, and why this mod doesn't work on the newer Dakotas with their leak detection pump

[moparpower]

so i have a 99 cc r/t, that 3/8'' line comes up by the drivers side header and runs to a unit behind my batttey im guessing this means i have the leak detection pump? if so does this mean theres no way of getting rid of this "evap" system? and how can i look to find out weather or not my ECU is a cali or federal?

[hskr]

so i have a 99 cc r/t, that 3/8'' line comes up by the drivers side header and runs to a unit behind my batttey im guessing this means i have the leak detection pump? if so does this mean theres no way of getting rid of this "evap" system? and how can i look to find out weather or not my ECU is a cali or federal?

If you have the stuff under the battery box your truxk is california emissions. If you find a federal emissions PCM to put into your truck you can ditch the evap stuff with no CEL using the resistor.

[moparpower]

when i put the federal PCM in, wont it trow a CEL if its not flashed to match the truck?

[Addicted2Blue00]

i havent thrown a CEL when i changed the ecu on my 00 and ive changed it 2 different ecu's which neither have a matching vin, both are fed ecu