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dakfink
12-07-2010, 07:41 AM
Well since Hotchkis doesn't want to play with the Dakota Crowd any more.

What do you guys think would be the best complete combination of parts from the Current Available market to use for a good handling set-up.

Wheels and tires included. Not so much brand but sizing.

I wish someone did a complete package like the Mustang crowd has. 1box with everything front to rear for 1 price.

Here's my thoughts:

1 Hotchkis Sway bars
2 Cal-Tracs
3 Factory Rear Leaves
4 JDM front Tubular A-arms (upper and lower)
5 EITHER: {Eibach or GroundForce front springs} OR {Qa-1 or Aafco Coil-Overs}. Prefer the coil overs if they can handle the weight alone.
6 Hi-Potek's X-brake Kit
7 Energy Suspension Bushings

Wheels= 20" x 8-10"wide
Tires= 275-40-20 or 305-35-20

Please add suggestions or reccomendations.

Five9Dak
12-07-2010, 11:38 AM
If all you care is about handling the caltracs and big wheels are adding too much unsprung weight.

The rear spring rate isn't high enough- have to get somebody else to make a de-arched stiffer spring, but that certaintly isn't off the shelf.

Honestly- pick up a used hotchkis kit and give some sports car drivers a run for their money. With the right tires on a medium to long length autoX track the trucks can be pretty competitive in raw time, but the class you will end up in becuase of the mods- you will get creamed.

dakfink
12-07-2010, 12:59 PM
I've been looking for a used Hotchkis kit for a while now. Every time one comes up, someone beats me to it. (Dirty Bastards)

I was kind of wondering if the cal-tracs would even be of any use in that kind of set-up. Not going just straight??

Only reason I was looking at the bigger wheels. Was for the stiffer side walls. Wouldn't that reduce the tire side load roll, and plant the tire a little more solidly in turns?

I would definately go with a Lighter wheel and there are plenty of 18-20" out their lighter than the HOGs that came on the R/T.

I apologize if I sound ignorant in this area. I'm used to Go Fast Keep it Staight stuff!!

Five9Dak
12-07-2010, 03:15 PM
With a good radial tire the sidewall compliance isnt much of an issue, especially the low speeds the truck would be running at. If you are concerned I would say 18s, but I like my 17s just fine for autoX, and they are much lighter than stock.

I wouldnt bother with caltracs at all. Spend the money on a differential that isnt clutch based- because once you put sticky tires on and start taking corners with big torque input, the stock LSD will only last ~ 1 season.

I put CC hotchkis stuff on my RC, it is really stiff in the rear. With the 100lb tonno on the street its not terrible. With it removed for autoX it is very stiff and helps rotate the truck on the slow speed corners it would usually plow through.

A manual VB to hold gears through corners wouldn't be terrible. Depends on track size a bit.

dakfink
12-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Hmm?

I might just put a CC kit under it. I have seen a few of those pop up here and there. I only let them slide because I thought it might be a fit issue.

grapejuice1998
12-07-2010, 10:01 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think the Caltracs actually added a lot to how well my truck handles. There is pretty much zero body roll in the back half because of them. I noticed it right away.

Addicted2Blue00
12-08-2010, 04:39 AM
a x brace does improvin the handling and ride, my plan is replace the control arms bushings - x brace- sway bars - adjustable shocks, course im cheap anyways

dakfink
12-08-2010, 06:15 AM
Back to tires???

Are there any that are better than others??

I was looking at Nitto.

But I also remember some Sumitomos I had on my Mustang years ago thet were good road-course and drag-tires BUT really sucked if it got wet.

Vectors IIRC?

Five9Dak
12-08-2010, 11:16 AM
What exactly are you looking to do? Street/autoX on the same tire? AutoX tire? How many events are you trying to run?

The word summitomo doesn't come up much in autoX, only mustang magazines cause they make cheap tires in their size.

grapejuice1998
12-08-2010, 12:23 PM
Back to tires???

Are there any that are better than others??

I was looking at Nitto.

But I also remember some Sumitomos I had on my Mustang years ago thet were good road-course and drag-tires BUT really sucked if it got wet.

Vectors IIRC?

If you're talking 255/55/17, you can't beat Federals IMO.

dakfink
12-08-2010, 01:27 PM
What exactly are you looking to do? Street/autoX on the same tire? AutoX tire? How many events are you trying to run?

The word summitomo doesn't come up much in autoX, only mustang magazines cause they make cheap tires in their size.

Not looking to compete, but looking for a very good handling set-up for scooting around on the street.

I don't mind the ride being stiff as long as it returns with good handling.

Not like the Mustang I had from years ago. It would beat your brains out over bumps and such and the handling was so-so.

dakfink
12-10-2010, 09:00 AM
how does an Air Suspension fare??

I know most that use them are looking to go really low but they also ride very nice at rolling height from what I've heard.

I think alot of G-machines have been using air-suspension as well.

I guess that is more of what I am after, G-machine type ride.
Handles well and rides nice on the street.

Not worried about getting any lower than I already am.

6speedrt
12-10-2010, 04:08 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think the Caltracs actually added a lot to how well my truck handles. There is pretty much zero body roll in the back half because of them. I noticed it right away.

I agree, I put them on and the first thing I noticed was a massive difference coming out of corners. It went strait where I pointed it instead of having to worry about the back end kicking out. This was with autocross tires that actually stick too. Of coarse you can still kick the rear out if you over do the pedal, but it is much harder to do now. I am not getting rid of them.

SB440R/T
12-10-2010, 04:47 PM
how does an Air Suspension fare??

I know most that use them are looking to go really low but they also ride very nice at rolling height from what I've heard.

I think alot of G-machines have been using air-suspension as well.

I guess that is more of what I am after, G-machine type ride.
Handles well and rides nice on the street.

Not worried about getting any lower than I already am.

I know there is a complete air bag system out there for the Dakotas, but its big money, don't remember who makes it though.

SB440R/T
12-10-2010, 05:08 PM
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspension-systems/vehicle-packages/1997-2004-dodge-dakota-level-1.html

Here you go. Supposed to be pretty good.

Five9Dak
12-13-2010, 03:42 AM
Also- you can increase rear roll stiffness by clamping the forward part of the leaves. The caltracs may also be serving this roll when axle torque is applied.

dakfink
12-13-2010, 06:24 AM
Also- you can increase rear roll stiffness by clamping the forward part of the leaves. The caltracs may also be serving this roll when axle torque is applied.

I think so!!

That is pretty much all the Cal-Tracs do. Keep the front 1/2 of the spring from flexing.

I'm still wondering about the air-ride system??

Seems like it would be great for staright line, as it soed incorporate a 4-link style rear suspension.

BUT: seems like the air bags would be sqiushy in the turns and curves.

I have never dealt with them or even been around them so I have no clue.

Five9Dak
12-13-2010, 11:05 AM
I've always been skeptical about airbags and handling, the extremely progressive wheel rate seems like a blessing and curse from that perspective. It seems to me that you would have to choose your bag and static ride hieght carefully to get the wheel rate you desired. Even then, if this type of progressive spring was desirable you wouldn't see the trend towards static spring rates in road racing and autocross.

CHRGEIT
12-29-2010, 03:33 AM
[QUOTE=dakfink;151259]how does an Air Suspension fare??

I will be going air here in a couple of months. I’m mapping everything out now.

Going to be doing a 4 link in the back with bags off the rear of the axle to a cross member. I have looked in to the Air Ride Tech kit but for 2500 they can keep it, because for about 500 give or take you can build your own 4 link. Then I will finish it off with QA1 adj shocks in the rear.

For the front I’m going to run the Air Ride Tech shock waves with double adj shocks built in.

But what is going to make the kit complete is the Accuair ride control. It has sensors in all 4 sides to control bag pressure. See link below.
http://www.accuairsuspension.com/product_elevel_tpad.html

All this will be done without notching the frame at all or any major cutting to the front. Truck will sit at 3” off the ground to the side skirts when laid out all the way. Ride height will be 1” lower than it is now with the Belltech 2” drop springs and the Hotchkis springs in the rear.

Five9Dak
12-29-2010, 03:52 AM
If you are dropping it from where it stands now, I would notch it just for more ride comfort. Even with a really stiff hotchkis leaf in the back, and only -3" from "stock 2wd" I look foward to notching mine. With a softer air bag you are going to be bottoming out a lot.

CHRGEIT
12-29-2010, 05:24 PM
If you are dropping it from where it stands now, I would notch it just for more ride comfort. Even with a really stiff hotchkis leaf in the back, and only -3" from "stock 2wd" I look foward to notching mine. With a softer air bag you are going to be bottoming out a lot.

Good point. Will keep that in mind.

Was looking at no notch because I could lay it out and use the frame to stop it and that would keep it from sitting on the side skrits. Was also looking at setting the bag up to have a little more air in it. This would keep it stiff in the rear. For example bag is fully extended at say 8" with 200 psi. Try to shot for the 5" or 6" mark and with the adj shocks out back to help keep it stiff.

Going to take some playing with it to get it right.